Market Frankford Line,

[seand]

Millbourne is such a useless station that I imagine there must be some story behind why it even exists. I think every outbound train I've ever been on has skipped it, anyway.

I think it was to go to the Sears it used to be next to, which is now on 69th St.

[seand]

I'm not saying to move the turnaround, just pointing out that removing a station that probably a lot of commuters use is probably a non-starter as well.

In the total distance you walk underground from Market East to get to 11th as opposed to walk to 13th you maybe save 10% of the walk. Its basically symbollically closer, rather than actually closer in actual number of steps. Particularly if you go up the western escalator from Market East. I used to transfer from the trolley to regional rail at 13th frequently because you can always get a seat on the trolley at the end of the line, as opposed to at 30th or City Hall when its often already full.

[chris123678]

Millbourne is about 3 very short blocks from the terminal and 63 street station. They really need to get rid of that station or eliminate Westbound platform service.

[raider.adam]

In the total distance you walk underground from Market East to get to 11th as opposed to walk to 13th you maybe save 10% of the walk. Its basically symbollically closer, rather than actually closer in actual number of steps. Particularly if you go up the western escalator from Market East. I used to transfer from the trolley to regional rail at 13th frequently because you can always get a seat on the trolley at the end of the line, as opposed to at 30th or City Hall when its often already full.

Welcome to the issues of a business that is run by politicians. Public screaming is a relevant factor.

[tsarstruck]

I thought the free transfer was coming with the new payment system, some time in the 21st century. Was that wrong?å

I believe the current plan does not include free transfers (except at City Hall and 13th), although they'll automatically charge you the lowest amount possible for your day's worth of travel (upgrading you to a day pass, etc.).

[NoComment]

How about getting rid of 11th Street Station?
I find it such a waste of money and time for the El to stop so frequently as much as a bus.
I'll just do the current Market Street Stops
69th,Millbourne,63,60th,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,13,11 ,8,5,2
Here's my redone version.
69,63,60,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,11,5,2.
Millborune- Nobody ever uses it.

You need 8th as a quick transfer to/from PATCO for those of from NJ.

How about going with adding A/B designated stops in center city instead?

[BarryG]

You need 8th as a quick transfer to/from PATCO for those of from NJ.

How about going with adding A/B designated stops in center city instead?

How would that work? Outlying stops that are A/B would never have rush hour service to some Center City stations in that case.

I agree that if we were starting over, we could get rid of one of the CC stops, but does it affect service in a meaningful way? if a 20th St station is ever built maybe it's worth considering eliminating a CC east stop.

[chris123678]

I forgot all about the purposeless A/B train service that the el has. It's completely useless for people who live on the Market Street side. Not all center city stops are needed for every train to stop at.
Here's my idea.
Current
69,Millbourne,63,60,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,13,11,8,5 ,2
A/B serivce should be at the following
Millbourne
63rd
56th
34th
13th
11th
5th.

[BarryG]

I forgot all about the purposeless A/B train service that the el has. It's completely useless for people who live on the Market Street side. Not all center city stops are needed for every train to stop at.
Here's my idea.
Current
69,Millbourne,63,60,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,13,11,8,5 ,2
A/B serivce should be at the following
Millbourne
63rd
56th
34th
13th
11th
5th.

34th St used to be A/B but they made all trains stop there because it's a big stop for commuting.

[kidphilly]

What would the cost be to run a spur on this line off at 34th and over toward the new chop line

Would that be cheaper than extending PATCO to that area. JK if anyone knows maybe a better a/b use


Yes there are too many stops on E Market and not enough on W Market

[chris123678]

"toward the new chop line"
What's that?

I think A/B service would be the best option.

[kidphilly]

"toward the new chop line"
What's that?

I think A/B service would be the best option.

Meant new CHOP Facility by the South St Bridge

[eldondre]

"toward the new chop line"
What's that?

I think A/B service would be the best option.

I don't think cc can accomodate a/b service, one right on top of the other

[BarryG]

What would the cost be to run a spur on this line off at 34th and over toward the new chop line

Would that be cheaper than extending PATCO to that area. JK if anyone knows maybe a better a/b use


Yes there are too many stops on E Market and not enough on W Market

Probably very high considering there are already trolley tunnels there. Extending PATCO would be more practical.

[MariusPontmercy]

Probably very high considering there are already trolley tunnels there. Extending PATCO would be more practical.

But it would only allow for commuting from south Jersey. A transfer from the MFL would require a change of transit agencies which is inconvenient.

[BarryG]

But it would only allow for commuting from south Jersey. A transfer from the MFL would require a change of transit agencies which is inconvenient.

After NPT there's no reason fare instruments can't be compatible. By the time any PATCO extension would be built (assuming it is sooner than never) they probably already will be.

[loveisnoise]

Thank g-d some of you don't make septa decisions. 11th street is worthless?!?! Hahahaha! Yeah- there's just this thing called the convention center and reading terminal market that may disagree.

Two blocks is smart. It isn't about time or what you think is correct; it is about moving millions of people throughout our city in an efficient manner without bottlenecking people. There are already a and b options. The el is amazing, and the only reliable service that appears every 4 minutes during the day while most busses are about as accurate as a broken clock.

[chris123678]

^^^^^^^One of the purposes of a subway is to move people quickly throughout the city. Your are not moving quickly if your stopping minute. You mean to tell me that people who get off at 13th street, can't walk two very very small blocks to get to 11th street? You can't plan an el like that. What if some building important was on every single block,then what?
It's entirely to close to 13 and 15

[raider.adam]

^^^^^^^One of the purposes of a subway is to move people quickly throughout the city. Your are not moving quickly if your stopping minute. You mean to tell me that people who get off at 13th street, can't walk two very very small blocks to get to 11th street? You can't plan an el like that. What if some building important was on every single block,then what?
It's entirely to close to 13 and 15

If you were building it new from scratch, I would see the point, but I am guessing there are enough bodies passing through that station that SEPTA would be killed for even talking about closing it.

[NoComment]

For those of you who think the bus is faster than the El, I dare you to give it a try. I once got on a bus at 8th in the middle of the day to take it to 15th. Stopped at EVERY block and to top it off, almost all the lights changed to red. At least the El skips a few of those blocks and doesn't get caught at red lights, unless of course, there is a signal problem.