Philly SEPTA vs. Manhattan MTA Train Experiences

**RittenhouseGirl** · 03-06-2012, 04:20 PM

I am guessing a number of readers here have ridden NY subways or a train in another city. I thought I might mention some differences/similarities I noticed between the SEPTA and MTA train experiences.

1. Philly train riders like to engage in stare-downs. NY subway riders try their best to NOT make eye contact.

2. Philly riders tend to move away from the sliding doors when they open to leave people on/off. NY train riders jam themselves on and off the trains, and you often have to slide yourself between people standing in the way.

3. Both train systems have the same amount of beggars going between train cars, but NY train riders have more elaborate stories as to why they are asking for money: "I just want to buy some lunchmeat and bread because I came to NY to be an actor but can't find any job at all and I don't want to starve. If it were you, you would want someone to give you some change. So please help me."

4. MTA trains have more crazy costume-wearing riders per train: man dressed as a bee, man spray painted entirely over in gold paint, man with Cabbage Patch dolls attached all over his body. You have to pretend not to notice somehow.

5. MTA subways used to have a lot of violence and robberies in the 70s and 80s that has since cooled somewhat. It seems SEPTA trains have seen an uptick in this behavior in the last ten years.

Anyone want to share anything they've noticed between Philly and another city train system?

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-06-2012, 04:39 PM

MTA stations are smellier, hotter and nastier than ours.

**Naveen** · 03-06-2012, 04:50 PM

The MTA stations feel safer, b/c there are so many people. I'm amazed at how you can walk through SEPTA subway stations and see so few people except at peak times. Of course, we're talking a city with 8+ mill vs. 1.5 mill, not to mention they have more extensive system which means more usage.

**luchobucho** · 03-06-2012, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by RittenhouseGirl

2. Philly riders tend to move away from the sliding doors when they open to leave people on/off. NY train riders jam themselves on and off the trains, and you often have to slide yourself between people standing in the way.

I don't know about this. I've lived in NYC and Philly. I find peoples behvaior at the doors to be quite obnoxious in Philly.....they push you as you're trying to get off.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-06-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by luchobucho

I don't know about this. I've lived in NYC and Philly. I find peoples behvaior at the doors to be quite obnoxious in Philly.....they push you as you're trying to get off.

I've found them to be equally obnoxious.

**hubba1** · 03-06-2012, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by luchobucho

I don't know about this. I've lived in NYC and Philly. I find peoples behvaior at the doors to be quite obnoxious in Philly.....they push you as you're trying to get off.

Agreed...I think the Philly riders are horrible when it comes to this, the busses seem to be worse, but it's also the case on many crowded trains.

**RittenhouseGirl** · 03-06-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Naveen

The MTA stations feel safer, b/c there are so many people. I'm amazed at how you can walk through SEPTA subway stations and see so few people except at peak times. Of course, we're talking a city with 8+ mill vs. 1.5 mill, not to mention they have more extensive system which means more usage.

I know I feel less of a thug vibe at MTA stations. This might be because Manhattan is expensive to live in and you have a lot of working people and college students riding all day. Maybe less thugs abound. Of course, I've never been to a Bronx MTA stop, etc.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-06-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by RittenhouseGirl

I know I feel less of a thug vibe at MTA stations. This might be because Manhattan is expensive to live in and you have a lot of working people and college students riding all day. Maybe less thugs abound. Of course, I've never been to a Bronx MTA stop, etc.

Heh, ride a subway whose terminus is Jamaica, Queens.

**arjay** · 03-06-2012, 05:26 PM

People in NYC know exactly how to act like human beings but in anonymous situations they will push you, shove you, cut in front of you with no apologies, and generally act like *******s because... well, because **** you, that's why. There are a lot of people in Philly who just seriously, for real, have no idea how to act like anything resembling a human being. It's scary and so so sad.

**Naveen** · 03-06-2012, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by arjay

People in NYC know exactly how to act like human beings but in anonymous situations they will push you, shove you, cut in front of you with no apologies, and generally act like *******s because... well, because **** you, that's why. There are a lot of people in Philly who just seriously, for real, have no idea how to act like anything resembling a human being. It's scary and so so sad.

So people in New York know how to act like human beings but don't, whereas people in Philly just don't know how to behave human. If that's the case, I'd give the round to Philly, cause it's not our fault, we don't know any better.

**supersupper** · 03-06-2012, 07:18 PM

Philly riders do all sorts of things to prevent/dissuade someone from sitting next to them. NY'rs are uncomfortably willing to scrunch in. Granted they have benches and we have side-to-side seats.

Philly riders crowd around entry making it a pain to get on and off. NY'rs seem to just move in ploitely. Granted, our major stops are fairly close and not far enough for people to need to sit. It still annoys the bejeebers outta me.

**Nexis4Jersey** · 03-06-2012, 07:48 PM

Every try Urban Jersey's system? Its a world different then the MTA....

**RittenhouseGirl** · 03-06-2012, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Every try Urban Jersey's system? Its a world different then the MTA....

I have taken the NJT train to Manhattan - you know - the cheaper but way longer alternative to riding Amtrak to Manhattan. I am not sure if this fits your description for urban Jersey though. I do know that the double decker train seems kind of cool, but you get thugs on those trains too sometimes.

What has been your experience?

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-06-2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by arjay

People in NYC know exactly how to act like human beings but in anonymous situations they will push you, shove you, cut in front of you with no apologies, and generally act like *******s because... well, because **** you, that's why. There are a lot of people in Philly who just seriously, for real, have no idea how to act like anything resembling a human being. It's scary and so so sad.

What magical lines do you ride in NYC? Except for a couple of stations and the cars that seem to be a bit newer, the behaviors are surprisingly similar.

**Naveen** · 03-07-2012, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

What magical lines do you ride in NYC? Except for a couple of stations and the cars that seem to be a bit newer, the behaviors are surprisingly similar.

One difference, as noted above, is that in Philly the typical BSL or El rider is representative of the city as a whole. Contrast that with NYC, where Manhattan MTA riders are disproportionately educated and coming from the middle-class (even if it's just college educated 20-something just getting by paycheck to paycheck). So yeah, maybe there is better behavior, but only if you restrict your MTA travel to Manhattan.

**NoComment** · 03-07-2012, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Naveen

One difference, as noted above, is that in Philly the typical BSL or El rider is representative of the city as a whole. Contrast that with NYC, where Manhattan MTA riders are disproportionately educated and coming from the middle-class (even if it's just college educated 20-something just getting by paycheck to paycheck). So yeah, maybe there is better behavior, but only if you restrict your MTA travel to Manhattan.

As Hospitalitygirl noted above, hop on at any station in Manhattan and take yourself to the Jamaica Queens station --- and somewhere in between Manhattan and Jamaica, you'll be wondering where all the middle and upper class white people disappeared to... If you're used to riding with the demographics outside the center city stations on the El/BSL, you'll feel at home riding through Queens.

**PhilaCap** · 03-07-2012, 08:54 AM

Are we talking Philly subway or train? Two very different riding experiences.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-07-2012, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by PhilaCap

Are we talking Philly subway or train? Two very different riding experiences.

The direction can be telling as well.

**discoprincess** · 03-07-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by supersupper

Philly riders do all sorts of things to prevent/dissuade someone from sitting next to them. NY'rs are uncomfortably willing to scrunch in. Granted they have benches and we have side-to-side seats.

Philly riders crowd around entry making it a pain to get on and off. NY'rs seem to just move in ploitely. Granted, our major stops are fairly close and not far enough for people to need to sit. It still annoys the bejeebers outta me.

That wasn't my experience this morning. The train was packed once it arrived at my station. I had to push my way to get in-and many times people who crowd around the doors don't want to move in even if there is space in the middle of the subway car.

One difference, as noted above, is that in Philly the typical BSL or El rider is representative of the city as a whole. Contrast that with NYC, where Manhattan MTA riders are disproportionately educated and coming from the middle-class (even if it's just college educated 20-something just getting by paycheck to paycheck). So yeah, maybe there is better behavior, but only if you restrict your MTA travel to Manhattan.

This is overgeneralizing. A significant number of those middle-class riders that you see on those Manhattan subway trains are coming in from the outer boroughs (like Brooklyn or Queens) or they may even be commuters from the suburbs. Yuppies and hipsters are moving to the outer boroughs because they are priced out of Manhattan. So, you may find the occaisional yuppie or hipster on a train to Jamaica, Queens.

On the other hand you will also find a significant amount of working-class people riding the subway who are residents of Manhattan (e.g. from Chinatown, from Harlem, Washington Heights).

I will say this - there is probably greater socio-economic diversity among NYC subway riders than those who ride SEPTA within city limits. Commuting to Manhattan by car is just not economically feasible and not worth the hassle!

**Naveen** · 03-07-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by discoprincess

This is overgeneralizing. A significant number of those middle-class riders that you see on those Manhattan subway trains are coming in from the outer boroughs (like Brooklyn or Queens) or they may even be commuters from the suburbs. Yuppies and hipsters are moving to the outer boroughs because they are priced out of Manhattan. So, you may find the occaisional yuppie or hipster on a train to Jamaica, Queens.

On the other hand you will also find a significant amount of working-class people riding the subway who are residents of Manhattan (e.g. from Chinatown, from Harlem, Washington Heights).

I will say this - there is probably greater socio-economic diversity among NYC subway riders than those who ride SEPTA within city limits. Commuting to Manhattan by car is just not economically feasible and not worth the hassle!

Yes, I agree, it is an overgeneralization. But we are talking generalities here anyway

. And I think your last point backs up that generalization. The MTA draws from a broader cross-section of the socioeconomic ladder (matrix?). Philly less so, especially during non-peak hours. So we have the results that we do.

As CC and South Philly fill in, I wonder how much that will change to being more like NYC. Theoretically it should, but since the core of our city is so much smaller, it's also more walkable and bikeable, requiring less transit anyway.