Why is there no train to West Chester?

[Naveen]

Just curious. Why is there no train from the city to West Chester? Was there ever one? It seems obvious to link the city with walkable towns like West Chester and Phoenixville. Is there a good reason why not?

[eldondre]

Just curious. Why is there no train from the city to West Chester? Was there ever one? It seems obvious to link the city with walkable towns like West Chester and Phoenixville. Is there a good reason why not?

welll....there were three links to WC...a trolley down west chester pike to 69th st, a passenger train via media, (and a third freight only connection to the main line around frazer). in today's world where most drive to exton or paoli and catch the train there, the old freight link probably makes the most sense to restore service in some form
phoenixville had service on the existing tracks into the reading terminal

[mixiboi]

People stop going to West Chester via Mass Tranist, thus Mass Transit disappeared..Sadly that was a stupid mistake on the part of those with cars...Could it be restored?

Sure, But SEPTA is still trying to get to Wawa first.

[Naveen]

in today's world where most drive to exton or paoli and catch the train there, the old freight link probably makes the most sense to restore service in some form

Yeah, I'd actually thought the same thing, without knowing that there was an existing rail link (if no longer used). In fact, I think intra-suburb rail, where feasible, would be as useful if not more than additional links to the city.

The thing is, I hear suburban people complain about how there aren't enough rail lines into the city, or that they don't run late enough...but then also complain about taxes and that they don't want to pay for anything.

[Hal]

Why is there no train from the city to West Chester?

That line was coal- then diesel, and when Philly / SEPTA inherited the bankrupt passenger rail lines from Reading RR and Pennsylvania RR,
they cut out diesel service in the mid 1970s.

Was there ever one?

Yes, IIRC that was also service to Delaware and Baltimore in the late 1800s early 1900s

It seems obvious to link the city with walkable towns like West Chester and Phoenixville.

Phoenixville was on one of two parallel routes out to Pottstown (Montomery County)( and Pottsville(Central PA coal regions)
With the collapse of coal as a fuel in the 30s, 40s 50s, the passenger serivice died off quickly.

Is there a good reason why not?

Same reason your local Ford dealer doesn't work on BWM - they're not familiar with the equipment.

Septa runs all electric equipment, restoring service would require


(A) Septa lean to deal with Diesel engines again (and create a diesel service yard)
or
(B) Septa convert the old diesel lines (e.g. two rails,) to add caternary (suspended power lines).


Hal

[seand]

Because (cough, cough) there is never any traffic on the 202 corridor and no people ever commute from the city to the suburbs or vice versa for their jobs, silly.

[eldondre]

Yeah, I'd actually thought the same thing, without knowing that there was an existing rail link (if no longer used). In fact, I think intra-suburb rail, where feasible, would be as useful if not more than additional links to the city.

The thing is, I hear suburban people complain about how there aren't enough rail lines into the city, or that they don't run late enough...but then also complain about taxes and that they don't want to pay for anything.

like anything, that depends. intrasuburb will never compete with suburb to city I think but to the extent its possible, it can really augment the ridership on the line. the main line probably has the most intrasuburban ridership so a connection that route rather than the circuitous route via media might be both more expensive and more useful. the only proposal I've seen (and it hasn't gone anywhere) is the green line light rail to phoenixville and west chester using old freight rights of way both running from paoli via great valley but having west chester locals rather than malvern locals would be a great thing for the region.

there aren't really any good reasons for the lack of service to phoenixville but plenty of excuses. I think a connecting bus to paoli from west chester would be a good start...a good one, not like that pos bus they run out there today that goes all over creation before ending up at paoli.

[MarketStEl]

Time to fix the history as reported upthread.

The PRR West Chester Branch was electrified all the way to West Chester in the 1930s. Just as the ex-RDG line to Doylestown becomes a single-track spur beyond Lansdale, the West Chester Branch became a single-track branch past Media until the early 1970s, when the second track was extended (I think) to Elwyn, where service currently ends. Service from Media to West Chester consisted mostly of one-car shuttle trains during all but peak hours.

By the early 1980s, the tracks beyond Elwyn had deteriorated to the point where major reconstruction would be required to preserve service, and SEPTA - which had just assumed operating control of Regional Rail - did not consider it worth the expense to keep the branch running. However, abandoning it would eliminate just about all commuter rail service into Chester County, as at the time, the Main Line service ended at Paoli. So after the Commuter Tunnel opened, SEPTA extended what was now the R5 Regional Rail line to Parkesburg on an experimental basis and suspended service on the West Chester Branch beyond Elwyn. (Bus Routes 117 and 119 were routed to provide substitute service of a sort.) After about two years or so, the Parkesburg service was cut back to Downingtown, then (I think) Paoli once again.

Sometime in the early 1990s, SEPTA had funds to improve Regional Rail service in Chester County, but not enough to restore or improve both of the lines. So the agency offered the Chester County commissioners a choice: We can either extend Main Line service past Paoli again or revive the West Chester Branch. The commissoners chose the Main Line proposal, which resulted in today's service to Thorndale.

Restoration of West Chester Branch service as far as Wawa remains a high priority item on SEPTA's capital wish list. However, the collapse of Act 44 funding has caused SEPTA's capital program to be mothballed.

[Naveen]

Interesting. Thanks.

I remember the R5 running all the way to Parkesburg even in the 90's. I grew up in Downingtown so when I went home from college on a weekend I took it to Downingtown, and I was always surprised the line went as far as Parksburg. At some point, the scaled at back to Thorndale.

[Sycamore]

Time to fix the history as reported upthread.

The PRR West Chester Branch was electrified all the way to West Chester in the 1930s. Just as the ex-RDG line to Doylestown becomes a single-track spur beyond Lansdale, the West Chester Branch became a single-track branch past Media until the early 1970s, when the second track was extended (I think) to Elwyn, where service currently ends. Service from Media to West Chester consisted mostly of one-car shuttle trains during all but peak hours.

By the early 1980s, the tracks beyond Elwyn had deteriorated to the point where major reconstruction would be required to preserve service, and SEPTA - which had just assumed operating control of Regional Rail - did not consider it worth the expense to keep the branch running. However, abandoning it would eliminate just about all commuter rail service into Chester County, as at the time, the Main Line service ended at Paoli. So after the Commuter Tunnel opened, SEPTA extended what was now the R5 Regional Rail line to Parkesburg on an experimental basis and suspended service on the West Chester Branch beyond Elwyn. (Bus Routes 117 and 119 were routed to provide substitute service of a sort.) After about two years or so, the Parkesburg service was cut back to Downingtown, then (I think) Paoli once again.

Sometime in the early 1990s, SEPTA had funds to improve Regional Rail service in Chester County, but not enough to restore or improve both of the lines. So the agency offered the Chester County commissioners a choice: We can either extend Main Line service past Paoli again or revive the West Chester Branch. The commissoners chose the Main Line proposal, which resulted in today's service to Thorndale.

The Wawa station received lots of disapproval from residents when the "city" at the Franklin Mint was still being threatened. They don't want people accessing their town from the city. So, wtf. I never realized how unpopulated that area was not so long ago until a 1991 Garnet Valley graduate reminded me he had only 100 people in his graduating class.

Exton Station, Whitford Station and D-Town are pretty close to West Chester for suburbanites looking to get into the city. Not so convenient for city folk trying to get into West Chester. Paoli Station has shuttles that run to lots of the local corporate centers (like mine).

[eldondre]

Time to fix the history as reported upthread.

The PRR West Chester Branch was electrified all the way to West Chester in the 1930s. Just as the ex-RDG line to Doylestown becomes a single-track spur beyond Lansdale, the West Chester Branch became a single-track branch past Media until the early 1970s, when the second track was extended (I think) to Elwyn, where service currently ends. Service from Media to West Chester consisted mostly of one-car shuttle trains during all but peak hours.

By the early 1980s, the tracks beyond Elwyn had deteriorated to the point where major reconstruction would be required to preserve service, and SEPTA - which had just assumed operating control of Regional Rail - did not consider it worth the expense to keep the branch running. However, abandoning it would eliminate just about all commuter rail service into Chester County, as at the time, the Main Line service ended at Paoli. So after the Commuter Tunnel opened, SEPTA extended what was now the R5 Regional Rail line to Parkesburg on an experimental basis and suspended service on the West Chester Branch beyond Elwyn. (Bus Routes 117 and 119 were routed to provide substitute service of a sort.) After about two years or so, the Parkesburg service was cut back to Downingtown, then (I think) Paoli once again.

Sometime in the early 1990s, SEPTA had funds to improve Regional Rail service in Chester County, but not enough to restore or improve both of the lines. So the agency offered the Chester County commissioners a choice: We can either extend Main Line service past Paoli again or revive the West Chester Branch. The commissoners chose the Main Line proposal, which resulted in today's service to Thorndale.

Restoration of West Chester Branch service as far as Wawa remains a high priority item on SEPTA's capital wish list. However, the collapse of Act 44 funding has caused SEPTA's capital program to be mothballed.

chester county still isn't interested in the the extension to west chester either via the prr freight branch or via wawa. atglen remains higher on their priority list than either west chester or phoenixville. naveen, you should contact your state rep and let them know you are unhappy with the county's priorities or attend any meetings they may have. I really don't see how atglen could possibly be of higher importance than either of the other two places and parkesburg already has amtrak service

[Naveen]

naveen, you should contact your state rep and let them know you are unhappy with the county's priorities or attend any meetings they may have.

I would...if I still lived in Chester County! Passyunk East is my home for another month, then I'm off to East Falls if everything goes right.

But I grew up in ChesCo and have my family and a lot of friends there. It's one thing I often hear people complain about when they're talking SEPTA. It's also something I've long wondered: why aren't all the metro areas towns and small cities linked by rail. I think this thread gave me a lot of the answers.