SEPTA underground concourse

**salf** · 12-30-2011, 12:06 PM

EDIT: Didn't actually search for the topic before posting, sorry if was already discussed.

So I work in Center City, had to go to the post office today in the morning, and when coming back from there (suburban station) I took a hallway I usually don't take, and stop to look a SEPTA map that showed the underground concourse in full extension.

I wasn't aware it covered as many blocks.

For some reason is hard to find online (not on SEPTA website), but found a couple here:

Philadelphia Subway Concourse Map

I'm just wondering, has anybody walked from one end to the other, both north-south, and east-west, the whole concourse?

**Jayfar** · 12-30-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by salf

EDIT: Didn't actually search for the topic before posting, sorry if was already discussed.

So I work in Center City, had to go to the post office today in the morning, and when coming back from there (suburban station) I took a hallway I usually don't take, and stop to look a SEPTA map that showed the underground concourse in full extension.

I wasn't aware it covered as many blocks.

For some reason is hard to find online (not on SEPTA website), but found a couple here:

Philadelphia Subway Concourse Map

I'm just wondering, has anybody walked from one end to the other, both north-south, and east-west, the whole concourse?

I have, except for the stretch that used to go to Race St, which was closed by the time I moved here 30 years ago. Also, while you can still go to 18th and JFK, southeast corner, that section has been realigned to the south side of JFK. The 18th & JFK northeast corner exit and its concourse passage went away with the demolition of the old Sheraton, which occupied the northern part of the Comcast Center block. Comcast Center has established a new 18th St exit on that corner.

**6enny** · 12-30-2011, 01:12 PM

My wife and I walked from 11th to almost 13th when a rat the size of a house cat ran across our path and she wouldn't go any further. Had to back track to 11th. Not that far, true, but it was annoying and slightly funny.

**phillyaggie** · 12-30-2011, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by 6enny

My wife and I walked from 11th to almost 13th when a rat the size of a house cat ran across our path and she wouldn't go any further. Had to back track to 11th. Not that far, true, but it was annoying and slightly funny.

I have walked that segment a few times, and it's easily one of the worst because it's narrow, there isn't much air circulation so it almost always is stuffy and it reeks (especially in summertime), and the whole place has a scary other worldly feel to it... especially if you're down there for the first time, by yourself, early in the morning, trying to catch a train to the airport like I was the first time I found my way in there. slightly funny and annoying would certainly be two terms to explain how I felt.

The south Broad concourse with all those pillars and the trains buzzing by only a few feet below you also has a surreal quality to it. You can feel the train movements much more on there than on the west side of city hall concourse.

**BarryG** · 12-30-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by phillyaggie

I have walked that segment a few times, and it's easily one of the worst because it's narrow, there isn't much air circulation so it almost always is stuffy and it reeks (especially in summertime), and the whole place has a scary other worldly feel to it... especially if you're down there for the first time, by yourself, early in the morning, trying to catch a train to the airport like I was the first time I found my way in there. slightly funny and annoying would certainly be two terms to explain how I felt.

The south Broad concourse with all those pillars and the trains buzzing by only a few feet below you also has a surreal quality to it. You can feel the train movements much more on there than on the west side of city hall concourse.

The South Broad concourse is creepy too because it's way too big. Even when it's crowded, it feels kind of empty, and most of the time there are only a few other people and it feels totally desolate and a bit unsafe. I don't know what they can do about it but there needs to be something to make the whole concourse more comfortable.

**phillyaggie** · 12-30-2011, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by BarryG

The South Broad concourse is creepy too because it's way too big. Even when it's crowded, it feels kind of empty, and most of the time there are only a few other people and it feels totally desolate and a bit unsafe. I don't know what they can do about it but there needs to be something to make the whole concourse more comfortable.

not sure that they can do anything that wouldn't cost a whole heck of a lot of money. and from what i can tell, most of the buildings above have blocked entrances to the concourse, unlike on Market St. Not sure whether the construction (and the fact that train noise pierces through loudly) can accommodate some retail/fast food joints similar to the west Market concourse. This was discussed in the past on here, but don't recall all the details.

Basically, Greenberger would love to have something done to fix it and make it look better, but I doubt there is any funding to get it done.

**Hal** · 12-30-2011, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by salf

EDIT: Didn't actually search for the topic before posting, sorry if was already discussed.

So I work in Center City, had to go to the post office today in the morning, and when coming back from there (suburban station) I took a hallway I usually don't take,

I'm just wondering, has anybody walked from one end to the other, both north-south, and east-west, the whole concourse?

Eh, actually, that map is not the current connected system -

It's the old map, pre Market East, so it's

A) missing the arc-shaped section under the north-east side of City Hall that runs from the sunken MSB plaza to the north side of the Market Concourse.

B) missing the connections via the gallery...

I think the farthest I've used the concourse was 16th around Arch to 8th & Chestnut
(roughly ~ Tir Na Nog to Morimoto)

Started at 1515 Arch / One Parkway (big tin can looking buiding at 16th & Arch on the north side of Love Park)
stepped out of the building during a hurricane, umbrella shredded almost immediately

- ducked into Suburban Station at 16th,
west along the concourse
into the the Gallery at 11th
through the gallery to 8th
south at 8th to Broad Ridge Spur / Patco station & crossover at 8th,
south at 8th to Chestnut exit...

Still got squeaky shoe wet, but not drenched....

Actually, in summertime heatwaves, (or downpours) heading from Broad to Chinatown grocery,
I've gone through Macy's, concourse, Gallery, Reading Terminal, Convention Center
in an effort to stay dry, or cool....

Hmm, sounds like an idea for a new android routing app -

"Calculates a route through air-conditioned public spaces and lobbies...."

Hal

**LUCas** · 12-30-2011, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Hal

Eh, actually, that map is not the current connected system -

It's the old map, pre Market East,

Got a link to the new one?

**Hal** · 12-30-2011, 03:28 PM

http://media.philly.com/images/concourse.gif

http://www.centercityphila.org/press...ease080207.php

Their link no longer works, but here's the close up

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1...Concourse5.jpg

**MTEMPLE** · 12-30-2011, 04:31 PM

Over the last 30 years I've walked every square inch down there including the PSFS short tunnel and the one off of Chestnut that led to the Septa building. Two years ago I trailed a photographer and got to see some hidden passages behind closed doors. If you think it's scary down there you should have seen it 15 years ago.

**mixiboi** · 12-30-2011, 05:51 PM

If only they reopen the one under Broad to the New Convention Center...

**MTEMPLE** · 12-30-2011, 06:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr71ZY0lA0o

**MTEMPLE** · 12-30-2011, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

If only they reopen the one under Broad to the New Convention Center...

The Municipal entrance going down.

The Race Street connection.

**John Goodman** · 12-30-2011, 06:30 PM

People always talk about Montreal's underground system but Philly has to be close to the same size or even bigger. It would be cool to have more businesses down there.

**mixiboi** · 12-30-2011, 07:33 PM

That is why people talk about Montreal's underground system, it has businesses, and it is an amazing underground hub, like Suburban Station but 100x bigger and with Gallery like shops.

**Jayfar** · 12-30-2011, 07:33 PM

My fuzzy recollection is that in the early 80s there were several small shops in the concourse near 13th St on the north side of Market.

**MTEMPLE** · 12-30-2011, 07:41 PM

**MTEMPLE** · 12-30-2011, 07:50 PM

Race Street Concourse.

**MariusPontmercy** · 12-30-2011, 08:39 PM

There used to be entrances on Arch Street too? Are those still around. I've never seen the closed off end at the City Hall side, only the closed off entrance at Race Vine.

Under City Hall (Philadelphia) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This is my favorite part of the concourse though. It's right out of some weird dystopian future story.

**phillyaggie** · 12-31-2011, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

People always talk about Montreal's underground system but Philly has to be close to the same size or even bigger. It would be cool to have more businesses down there.

I imagine Montreal has brutal winters when people hate to be "up top" and prefer to do their lunch and shopping underground in something more climate controlled. That's the case with cities like Dallas and Houston which both have (especially Houston) extensive underground network that basically connects all the buildings downtown to each other...it's air conditioned, there are all manners of shops and restaurants. The result is that above ground, it almost feels like a neutron bomb went off, keeping the buildings intact but wiping out every living thing within miles.