Bus and Trolley Traffic Signal Priority

[Andy Sharpe]

Some exciting news for SEPTA bus and trolley riders, as the city is looking to give buses or trolleys extended green lights on 3 select routes. More info here: City, SEPTA team up to give riders the green light to take transit.

What are your thoughts?

Andy Sharpe
Communications Director
Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers
1601 Walnut St., Suite 1129
Philadelphia, PA 19102-2913
phone: 215-RAILWAY (215-724-5929)
e-mail: sharpe@dvarp.org

[eldondre]

Whats not to like? The 6 and 66 are great picks. Wish theud go skip stop on the 43

[hammersklavier]

More importantly, I wish the 43 had 15-minute headway (rather than the 20 it seems to have today).

[gren]

Sounds like there's no downside so how could you not like it. Any time lost by cars in one direction will be gained by cars before and after the buses on prioritized routes. And since the prioritized routes are mostly on arterials it will probably have minor net benefit to cars too. I'm especially excited about the 13. I always hope some program will speed up the trolleys enough to boost ridership and justify expanded train sets and possibly a step towards light rail type service on some lines.

I hope they're good with releasing data. I'm surprised we haven't seen anything from the 47 project yet.

[eldondre]

More importantly, I wish the 43 had 15-minute headway (rather than the 20 it seems to have today).

boosting ridership is key to increasing headways

[TLP]

boosting ridership is key to increasing headways

And increasing headways is key to boosting ridership. It's a nice little feedback loop.

[eldondre]

And increasing headways is key to boosting ridership. It's a nice little feedback loop.

but it's NOT the only way to increase ridership. If you can increase the number of current riders, you can justify increasing frequency. signal prioritization should boost ridership as is without any increase in ongoing subsidies.

[billy ross]

Some exciting news for SEPTA bus and trolley riders, as the city is looking to give buses or trolleys extended green lights on 3 select routes. More info here: City, SEPTA team up to give riders the green light to take transit.

What are your thoughts?

Andy Sharpe
Communications Director
Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers
1601 Walnut St., Suite 1129
Philadelphia, PA 19102-2913
phone: 215-RAILWAY (215-724-5929)
e-mail: sharpe@dvarp.org

Contrary to what you wrote, none of those lines hit Northwest Philadelphia. While the 60 does serve East Falls, it hits the part of EF which is in North Philly, as opposed to the part which is in Northwest Philly. More importantly, I'd love to see a demonstration run where the stops are moved to the far side of the light, so that the bus stops AFTER the light. This would allow the busses to catch every light green, always, unless they come across another bus at a cross street which also has transit first technology. Imagine how that would work - busses would fly.

[hammersklavier]

Making the routes go faster helps boost ridership and hence revenue. But it's also important to consider ways to decrease operations expenses long-term--and for the vast majority of the city, that means trolleybuses.

[Andy Sharpe]

Contrary to what you wrote, none of those lines hit Northwest Philadelphia. While the 60 does serve East Falls, it hits the part of EF which is in North Philly, as opposed to the part which is in Northwest Philly. More importantly, I'd love to see a demonstration run where the stops are moved to the far side of the light, so that the bus stops AFTER the light. This would allow the busses to catch every light green, always, unless they come across another bus at a cross street which also has transit first technology. Imagine how that would work - busses would fly.

You revive an interesting debate that was held in the Route 47 skip-stop thread. I question how much putting bus/trolley stops on the far-side of an intersection does to speed up a SEPTA vehicle. As for Northwest Philadelphia, your point is well-taken. I was thinking of the 6 and 60 buses, although it's debatable as to whether either goes through Northwest Philadelphia.


Andy Sharpe
Communications Director
Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers
1601 Walnut St., Suite 1129
Philadelphia, PA 19102-2913
phone: 215-RAILWAY (215-724-5929)
e-mail: sharpe@dvarp.org

[eldondre]

Making the routes go faster helps boost ridership and hence revenue. But it's also important to consider ways to decrease operations expenses long-term--and for the vast majority of the city, that means trolleybuses.

Im all for those as well.

[TLP]

but it's NOT the only way to increase ridership. If you can increase the number of current riders, you can justify increasing frequency. signal prioritization should boost ridership as is without any increase in ongoing subsidies.

An improvement in frequency would have a much greater effect on ridership than a reduction in trip time, but you're right that more frequent service is much more expensive operationally.

Will SEPTA or the City be maintaining the transponders on the traffic lights? I'm not sure if similar equipment is used in the city currently for emergency vehicles.

[eldondre]

An improvement in frequency would have a much greater effect on ridership than a reduction in trip time, but you're right that more frequent service is much more expensive operationally.

Will SEPTA or the City be maintaining the transponders on the traffic lights? I'm not sure if similar equipment is used in the city currently for emergency vehicles.

I never said it didn't but that's not really the issue. It's easy to say, hey, let's just run a ****load more buses everywhere and ridership will go up. the fact is, there are plenty of routes that have too many frequencies as well. an overall rationalization is long, long overdue. the 43 bus had low ridership for years because it's unreliable at rush hour and because it connected nothing to nothing...and that's why its headways suck. it's waterfront terminus had nothing for years and years. spring garden st is only now starting to come to life, it meanders slowly through mantua on its way to parkside which doesn't have a lot of people...and it stops shy of the mann. ridership has been increasing with the opening of sugarhouse and life coming back to the waterfront. I suspect the ongoing revitalization of spring garden st will also help. skip stop costs nothing. I mentioned it here because the thread is about signal priority. I actually think making the skip stop changes now is good since ridership is low.

[Andy Sharpe]

An improvement in frequency would have a much greater effect on ridership than a reduction in trip time, but you're right that more frequent service is much more expensive operationally.

Will SEPTA or the City be maintaining the transponders on the traffic lights? I'm not sure if similar equipment is used in the city currently for emergency vehicles.

The city will be maintaining anything to do with the traffic lights, since they own the lights. Traffic light pre-emption equipment is not currently used for emergency vehicles, although that could change as the city opens a Trafiic Operations Center.

Andy Sharpe
Communications Director
Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers
1601 Walnut St., Suite 1129
Philadelphia, PA 19102-2913
phone: 215-RAILWAY (215-724-5929)
e-mail: sharpe@dvarp.org

[mixiboi]

I'll agree with him that none of the routes that go through Center City need this technology. It just wouldn't work down there.


The only thing I see that will annoy some is that they will actually have to BE at the bus stop more if they want to catch their bus and not in a store and the lights will not be on their side anymore.

This is where real time track and such comes in. IT'd be cool if they would test that out at selected stop s on these lines too...Just use the GPS API they already got into a simple LED light sign.

[TLP]

an overall rationalization is long, long overdue.

I think that there is the main issue. Bus routes are hard to change as people are wedded to their local stop and service just the way it is, but it needs to happen.

Overall I think that traffic signal prioritization is an important thing and it's great that it's happening. I guess I just doubt that it will have a significant impact on any one route in the near term. Trip time savings are going to be low, less than 10% on a percentage basis if I had to throw up a guess. TSP has more of a system-wide benefit in making transit overall more attractive. Problem is, the types of things that will have a fairly rapid noticeable impact (improving headways) are expensive, so small improvements like this are important with the dollars that are available.

[mdmitchell]

I think that there is the main issue. Bus routes are hard to change as people are wedded to their local stop and service just the way it is, but it needs to happen.

Actually, SEPTA has managed OK with regard to changing bus routes. I can remember route reorganizations going back 20 years. Reducing stops has been controversial, though, and really needs support from the city as well as from SEPTA. Everyone (well, maybe not Jannie Blackwell) is on the same page now, so we may well see more of these improvements.

[eldondre]

Actually, SEPTA has managed OK with regard to changing bus routes. I can remember route reorganizations going back 20 years. Reducing stops has been controversial, though, and really needs support from the city as well as from SEPTA. Everyone (well, maybe not Jannie Blackwell) is on the same page now, so we may well see more of these improvements.

I dont agree. Look at the 23...same route for over a century. I dont blame selta so much as the city which seems to oppose change....present administration notwithstanding. Septa does a good job with its bus system given the constraints. also theor antitransfer policies notwithstanding

[gren]

I dont agree. Look at the 23...same route for over a century. I dont blame selta so much as the city which seems to oppose change....present administration notwithstanding. Septa does a good job with its bus system given the constraints. also theor antitransfer policies notwithstanding

Does the 23's route have to do with SEPTA's perpetual plan to reopen as a trolley?

[BarryG]

SEPTA has tried this before and failed. I'm excited that they are still trying but is this new technology?

The system — which is installed on Routes 10, 15 and 52 — extends green lights by several seconds after a device mounted on a traffic light receives an infrared signal from a transponder mounted on a bus or trolley.

However, given the flat terrain and small blocks along Baltimore Avenue, the study found that trolley transponder infrared signals would reach two stops at once.

And because the receivers will only hold the light once ever four minutes, trolleys wouldn’t be able to hold the second traffic light green as they approached it.

Link: West Philly issues crop up in Transit First trolley study | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

And there were also issues of who was supposed to maintain the devices on the lights--hopefully they are not repeating this mistake:

When SEPTA and the city installed traffic signal preemption devices on three trolley and bus routes, they were trying to speed up travel times for riders.


...
There’s just one problem: Philadelphia and SEPTA can’t agree on who is supposed to maintain them.



Link: Red light, green light ... or a case of switched signals? | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future