SEPTA Delays Smart Card again

[Volanova]

No plans are exactly the same, everyone is going to be trained to be "customer service" helpers, but after 2015, SEPTA will be cutting back on not needed that many of them, so layoffs are coming for some of the future booth helpers, just like in NYC, as they were only needed to get people used to the new system.


SEPTA Sales force will be reduced, as you don't need 8 people at Market East or 22 people at Suburban Square.

Of course SEPTA hasn't been open about this, as the union wouldn't like that, but looking at NY's MTA it going to happen:

Booth loose! MTA makes good on promise to remove Carroll St clerk


But of course the savings aren't that big:



MTA workers paid too much--Nicole Gelinas - NYPOST.com

Ticket booth clerks at commuter rail stations were making on average $66k per year? That sounds extremely high for a job that requires little skill and no college degree.

[mixiboi]

I don't know if MTA does what SEPTA does, but some of the booth workers are the "bad" employees that get "demoted" to those jobs, as the unions don't really allow you to "fire" people for those little things.

This would explain their wages.....

[Volanova]

I don't know if MTA does what SEPTA does, but some of the booth workers are the "bad" employees that get "demoted" to those jobs, as the unions don't really allow you to "fire" people for those little things.

This would explain their wages.....

If that is true, the extent to which unions control some of these agencies, and, by extension, have their hands on my tax dollars and fares is absolutely maddening.

[mixiboi]

The Unions are the good and bad of many things...

[MarketStEl]

If only it was the union. Having to rebuild a 100 year old system with very little funding doesn't help either..ask NYC's MTA or Chicago how they doing these days with their ancient systems...Its the one thing SEPTA is a head on them....

Actually, in New York, it would be the second go-round for a major system rebuild. Some $12bn was poured into the subways ca. 1990 to fix decades of deferred maintenance that had led to seriously deteriorated stations, signals, switches and tracks, and trains almost as slow as those in Chicago a few years back.

What I find surprising is that only 20-odd years later, they're talking about the need to spend billions more to bring the system back to a state of good repair. What was NYC doing in the interim?

The Regional Rail intigration is going to be the thing people will be fighting for months on, but anyone who thinks we should keep tokens till 2020 is insane.

There might be benefits to running Regional Rail more like rapid transit, and Chicago's Metra Electric lines show how the infrastructure would look. But the Railroad Division rank-and-file would fight this tooth and nail, for years, not months.

If you look at the chart on their site, they will cut the staff of booth people by half in 2015....

I don't see anything on either that graphic or elsewhere on the NPT website that gives hard numbers of staff cuts. All I have seen so far is vague statements about "reduce operating and maintenance costs." But maybe I'm not looking that hard.

Certainly, the experience so far from other cities suggests that the cost savings will be smaller than the staff reductions would lead one to believe.

About "customer service agents" at what used to be change booths in general: Not even most Second Subway Era systems dispense with personnel in stations altogether - PATCO, which is a single line, is the only one I know of that has completely unstaffed stations. (LA, which adopted the proof-of-payment system for fare collection, may be another.) The others all have customer service representatives (or assistants) in at least the heavily used central stations, and most have them in all stations.

[mixiboi]

I don't see anything on either that graphic or elsewhere on the NPT website that gives hard numbers of staff cuts. All I have seen so far is vague statements about "reduce operating and maintenance costs." But maybe I'm not looking that hard.

Certainly, the experience so far from other cities suggests that the cost savings will be smaller than the staff reductions would lead one to believe.

About "customer service agents" at what used to be change booths in general: Not even most Second Subway Era systems dispense with personnel in stations altogether - PATCO, which is a single line, is the only one I know of that has completely unstaffed stations. (LA, which adopted the proof-of-payment system for fare collection, may be another.) The others all have customer service representatives (or assistants) in at least the heavily used central stations, and most have them in all stations.

Of course they didn't come out right with it, but the wordage is there in the graphic under the last section "Information & Customer Support" under 2015:

SEPTA will continue to provide a mix of human and automated information and education at targeted sites and stations

Targeted sites and stations is SEPTA way of saying not ALL stations and sites. I expect in 2014 to see SEPTA former booth people everywhere in the system including Regional Rail station that never have anyone station...But by 2015 those people will be cut back to these targeted sites, which means someone is getting cut.

[BarryG]

I think that every station should have a human on site for safety reasons.

[mixiboi]

I think that every station should have a human on site for safety reasons.

That is what they said in NY. I agree, so we will have to be the ones to make sure SEPTA does that....

[BarryG]

That is what they said in NY. I agree, so we will have to be the ones to make sure SEPTA does that....

Well if the booth goblins really make 50-60k maybe they can be replaced by transit police or even ppd overtime.

[thoth]

Well if the booth goblins really make 50-60k maybe they can be replaced by transit police or even ppd overtime.

Great idea.

[Volanova]

Well if the booth goblins really make 50-60k maybe they can be replaced by transit police or even ppd overtime.

I would MUCH rather see uniformed officers walking around the stations than these guys sitting behind their glass. I have little confidence they'd notice if I was getting robbed, let alone do anything about it.

[tsarstruck]

I would MUCH rather see uniformed officers walking around the stations than these guys sitting behind their glass. I have little confidence they'd notice if I was getting robbed, let alone do anything about it.

Dealing with cash (a federal requirement) and opening up gates for the handicapped, people with strollers, etc., means that someone is going to have man the gates.

[BarryG]

Dealing with cash (a federal requirement) and opening up gates for the handicapped, people with strollers, etc., means that someone is going to have man the gates.

PATCO has unmanned stations.

[MarketStEl]

Of course they didn't come out right with it, but the wordage is there in the graphic under the last section "Information & Customer Support" under 2015:

[..."targeted stations..."]

Targeted sites and stations is SEPTA way of saying not ALL stations and sites. I expect in 2014 to see SEPTA former booth people everywhere in the system including Regional Rail station that never have anyone station...But by 2015 those people will be cut back to these targeted sites, which means someone is getting cut.

Okay, that makes sense, but you said the staff would be cut by half in your previous post. That's a pretty firm number, and the language you cite is much squishier.

PATCO has unmanned stations.

And their equipment is not set up to accept cash as the fare instrument. But once again, even those newer systems that also don't take cash as the fare instrument have staffed stations. Yes, I imagine they could have simply put phones by the turnstiles the way PATCO does, but I suspect that there is something reassuring of having a human presence for travelers who are particularly confused, and the larger the system, the greater the number of such confused people will be.

[eldondre]

I see you're still recycling 1980's pipe dreams sandy. If running the rrd that way made any sense it might be worth trying. But it isn't.
you don't need to pretend to be a second era subway to run trains more often than every 90 min what the chestnut hill west gets on the weekend. and to really capture cost savings you'd have to cut yourself off from mainline railroads, also not going to happen if anything, septa needs more amtrak and freights on its territory helping to foot the bill. and try as you might, south philly is not onthe regional rail system.

[radiocolin]

And their equipment is not set up to accept cash as the fare instrument.

Yes they do.

PATCO only accepts debit/credit for Freedom Card reloads of $20 or more. All other fares require cash in the TVM.

[BarryG]

Yes they do.

PATCO only accepts debit/credit for Freedom Card reloads of $20 or more. All other fares require cash in the TVM.

Not sure what everyone means by cash as a "fare instrument" but the new SEPTA turnstiles will not accept cash, you will have to use a machine to get a paper card, like PATCO.

[mixiboi]

Okay, that makes sense, but you said the staff would be cut by half in your previous post. That's a pretty firm number, and the language you cite is much squishier..

Yeah, that was my speculation that SEPTA wouldn't need that many as they have now, for example at suburban station they have 12 people station there to deal with fares(tickets, transpasses, tokens) so I would doubt Septa would put 12 people as customer services reps there and 6 would be a more ok number, thus half.

But we will see what happens in 2015

[eldondre]

One highly anticipated project, the New Payment Technology fare collection system, is projected to cost $228.8 million. In Fiscal Years 2013-2018, $201.1 million is programmed toward this project. The remaining $18.7 million was provided in past years.

The New Payment Technology project will update SEPTA’s fare payment system and offer electronic fare media that will allow users to pay through contactless cards and potentially phones. The first phase of the project will include complete design, pilot testing and data network and customer support system development. The second phase will deploy the system on trolley, heavy rail and bus fleets as well as test the technology on regional rail routes. The third phase will deploy the system to regional rail service, parking operations and customized community transportation systems.

DVRPC approves $3.8 billion in highway and transit improvements for Southeastern Pennsylvania | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

[eldondre]

One highly anticipated project, the New Payment Technology fare collection system, is projected to cost $228.8 million. In Fiscal Years 2013-2018, $201.1 million is programmed toward this project. The remaining $18.7 million was provided in past years.

The New Payment Technology project will update SEPTA’s fare payment system and offer electronic fare media that will allow users to pay through contactless cards and potentially phones. The first phase of the project will include complete design, pilot testing and data network and customer support system development. The second phase will deploy the system on trolley, heavy rail and bus fleets as well as test the technology on regional rail routes. The third phase will deploy the system to regional rail service, parking operations and customized community transportation systems.

DVRPC approves $3.8 billion in highway and transit improvements for Southeastern Pennsylvania | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future