Subways of North America

**Brian616** · 07-12-2011, 03:28 PM

Not sure if this has been posted here before. It's similar to the "subways at scale" diagram, but a little more detailed, and Philly comes out better, due to its trolleys and light rail. This version doesn't have the 15, and I'd even argue that the airport line and CC trunk should be included, as well.

Also, ZOMG Detroit. Sums up so much.

radicalcartography

**Burholme06** · 07-12-2011, 04:00 PM

That is pretty neat. Looking at Philadelphia and having a basic idea of the city/region geography, even at that scale it’s clear that the BSL and MFL don’t go far enough north and that there is a gaping whole going to the Northwest but within city limits. I suppose the regional rail lines do provide some coverage in these gaps with 4 lines that don’t leave the city limits (Foxchase, Chestnut Hill East and West, Airport).

**billpa** · 07-12-2011, 04:24 PM

Here's a map with metros from around the world. Look how "small" Paris is- of course, it's very, very dense.

world subways at scale - fake is the new real

**Brian616** · 07-13-2011, 11:25 AM

Yeah, that other map was posted here last year. It's also cool, but leaves off some our trolleys and light rail. I'm also not sure that our lines "don't go far enough". Sure DC's lines are longer, but they are in the middle of the burbs by then. I'd rather see more short, inner city lines.

**BarryG** · 07-24-2011, 11:03 PM

Why not include commuter rail?

**gren** · 07-25-2011, 12:29 AM

I've always lamented Philly rapid transit having less ridership than DC's rapid transit. I wonder how we compare using the lines shown on this map. I guess that would be comparing Washington Metrorail to Market-Frankford, Broad Street Subway, Subway-Surface Trolleys, Norristown High Speed Line, Routes 101 and 102, Patco, and the River Line. Could Philly be ahead? (Wikipedia gives numerous contradictory numbers for Metro ridership). Also, they forgot the Route 15!

Cool map.

**BarryG** · 07-25-2011, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by gren

I've always lamented Philly rapid transit having less ridership than DC's rapid transit. I wonder how we compare using the lines shown on this map. I guess that would be comparing Washington Metrorail to Market-Frankford, Broad Street Subway, Subway-Surface Trolleys, Norristown High Speed Line, Routes 101 and 102, Patco, and the River Line. Could Philly be ahead? (Wikipedia gives numerous contradictory numbers for Metro ridership). Also, they forgot the Route 15!

Cool map.

But DC Metro is used like RR is used here. The numbers are not comparable.

**Burholme06** · 07-25-2011, 09:01 AM

I agree but I would call the Metro in DC a hybrid. I think a fair comaprison would be RR + MFL + BSL + PATCO.

**eldondre** · 07-25-2011, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Burholme06

I agree but I would call the Metro in DC a hybrid. I think a fair comaprison would be RR + MFL + BSL + PATCO.

Metro+VRE+MARC probably equals those. still, the fact that our broad st trunk line remains without branches and carries well under capacity is a problem that should be addressed.

**gren** · 07-25-2011, 11:45 AM

I didn't use RR because I was doing "high frequency" systems (although I'm not sure River Line should really be counted there). The systems are vastly different so there isn't a great 'direct' comparison. DC's main benefit is having a large network of rapid transit. We don't have the traffic congestion to drive the ridership to support much shorter headways on regional rail, unfortunately.

**eldondre** · 07-25-2011, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by gren

I didn't use RR because I was doing "high frequency" systems (although I'm not sure River Line should really be counted there). The systems are vastly different so there isn't a great 'direct' comparison. DC's main benefit is having a large network of rapid transit. We don't have the traffic congestion to drive the ridership to support much shorter headways on regional rail, unfortunately.

I'm not entirely sure that's 100% true. sure, we may not have the capacity or demand for 10 minute headways on regional rail but certainly there is traffic congestion on 76 on sundays yet train service to norristown and paoli is still hourly. it isn't excessive to expect that train service be half hourly on sundays, even if it's 12-8 or so. the two systems are definitely different but I think an all emcompassing comparison is good, then individual components can explain the differences. I'd also point out that despite not having particularly modern infrastructure, service from the northern suburbs is competitive. I think the bigger problem is price. a trip from jenkintown is $9RT, or $4.50 each way. a similar trip on the metro is $2.75 each way, or $5.50...significantly less. An easy solution, IMO, is to make independence passes good for whole weekends. as it is, an independence pass is $11 and one day (not 24 hours, but same day use). it only makes sense from, say, jenkintown if you transfer. If it were good for a whole weekend, going back into town wouldn't cost any extra and it would reduce the per trip cost, making the pass cost effective for a broader swath of people.

**Burholme06** · 07-25-2011, 02:57 PM

Not to derail the thread, but speaking of headways, I road both the MFL and BSL yesterday (Sunday). According the the schedules trains should arrive every 10 minutes on both. I didn't look at my watch but I guarantee that it was closer to 15 min. At 15th street, I didn't just miss a train and there were people already waiting. By the time the train came, the platform was failry full as was the arrving train. I think casual riders are increasing which is expecially seen on the weeeknedds when you remove the commuters from the equation, which could probably justify better frequency.

**Sean** · 07-25-2011, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Burholme06

Not to derail the thread, but speaking of headways, I road both the MFL and BSL yesterday (Sunday). According the the schedules trains should arrive every 10 minutes on both. I didn't look at my watch but I guarantee that it was closer to 15 min. At 15th street, I didn't just miss a train and there were people already waiting. By the time the train came, the platform was failry full as was the arrving train. I think casual riders are increasing which is expecially seen on the weeeknedds when you remove the commuters from the equation, which could probably justify better frequency.

I've found the BSL and MFL schedules to be more of a suggestion on times than a real time table.

**eldondre** · 07-25-2011, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Burholme06

Not to derail the thread, but speaking of headways, I road both the MFL and BSL yesterday (Sunday). According the the schedules trains should arrive every 10 minutes on both. I didn't look at my watch but I guarantee that it was closer to 15 min. At 15th street, I didn't just miss a train and there were people already waiting. By the time the train came, the platform was failry full as was the arrving train. I think casual riders are increasing which is expecially seen on the weeeknedds when you remove the commuters from the equation, which could probably justify better frequency.

actually,it's every 12 minutes. I've noticed a real degration in service quality over the past couple years. the equipment seems to be breaking down more and more often. 12 minutes is also inadequate, especially given how many riders transfer. it contributes to inflating bus ridership as well. if I'm at 17th and the bus runs every 20, do I walk to the subway which runs every 12? no. if the subway runs every 8, then the answer is yes. reducing headways to every 8 also reduces maximum trip time by 8 minutes, not insignificant if actual trip time is 30 minutes...or if the drive would otherwise be 25 min. this is even worse for people on regional rail where it's every hour.

**BarryG** · 07-25-2011, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

I've found the BSL and MFL schedules to be more of a suggestion on times than a real time table.

Really? I find the BSL to run like clockwork. So much so that I wonder why they don't just fake next-train ETAs on the LEDs by basing it on the scheduled times.

**mdmitchell** · 07-25-2011, 08:51 PM

I have to agree. The El in peak hours has been pretty reliable, and does OK for on-time percentage. Obviously, there'll be a trip missed or some delays happening, after which the following trains run late from all the extra travel, but the train's usually there at 5:24 and not much more than a half minute early or late.

**Brian616** · 07-27-2011, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by gren

I've always lamented Philly rapid transit having less ridership than DC's rapid transit. I wonder how we compare using the lines shown on this map. I guess that would be comparing Washington Metrorail to Market-Frankford, Broad Street Subway, Subway-Surface Trolleys, Norristown High Speed Line, Routes 101 and 102, Patco, and the River Line. Could Philly be ahead? (Wikipedia gives numerous contradictory numbers for Metro ridership). Also, they forgot the Route 15!

Cool map.

The map was made in 2006, so the 15 probably wasn't on their reference maps yet. I don't think it got coded green until 2009 maybe?

**Sean** · 07-27-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by mdmitchell

I have to agree. The El in peak hours has been pretty reliable, and does OK for on-time percentage. Obviously, there'll be a trip missed or some delays happening, after which the following trains run late from all the extra travel, but the train's usually there at 5:24 and not much more than a half minute early or late.

I do not disagree at all with peak times, it is during off peak that I've experienced the issues.