ped tunnel connecting 30th St subway station and 30th St Station

**MariusPontmercy** · 06-14-2011, 11:33 PM

I heard this was closed back in the 70s due to vagrancy problems. I think we've come a long way since then, and a reopened pedestrian connection between the subway station and the train station would be a major convenience for commuters. Both the other main downtown stations have subway connections, but for some reason the city's real hub station, the only station with appreciable Amtrak service, gets no rapid transit connection. It makes no sense. If the tunnel is still there it should be a simple matter of opening it up again I would think. That is ridiculously low hanging fruit. Unless it was filled in or something. Anyone have any more background on this thing?

**BarryG** · 06-14-2011, 11:45 PM

Others will know more but I think it got blocked off when they put in the underground parking lot. It may be reopenable, but I think more is involved than unlocking some gates.

**mixiboi** · 06-14-2011, 11:49 PM

The vagrancy problem hasn't dissappered, so no..sorry.

**radiocolin** · 06-15-2011, 01:45 AM

The pub bar thing in the station is built over top of the old tunnel exit. Considering the crowd you find in the station after hours and outside the subway headhouse, a re-opened tunnel would have just as many vagrant problems.

**MariusPontmercy** · 06-15-2011, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

The vagrancy problem hasn't dissappered, so no..sorry.

Any worse than at 15th St/Suburban or Market East? We're gonna have bums no matter what. You can't wall off a connection like that because you see a homeless person. If we did that we would have to shut down the entire subway system. I think, I hope, that the traffic those two stations handle now is enough to outweigh the vagrancy problems.

**DocAwesome** · 06-15-2011, 09:47 AM

As far as I've heard, and none of this is firsthand information, is that this was a narrow and twisty tunnel that really lent itself into being insecure. The enterance as stated was papered over and is now bridgewaters pub, which is one of the many suprising gems in 30th st. Given that they redid 30th st. subway walkways maybe 5 years ago, I wouldn't hold my breath for a reopening. It wasn't a part of the grand 30th st station square project either.

**desolate** · 06-15-2011, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by MariusPontmercy

I heard this was closed back in the 70s due to vagrancy problems. I think we've come a long way since then, and a reopened pedestrian connection between the subway station and the train station would be a major convenience for commuters. Both the other main downtown stations have subway connections, but for some reason the city's real hub station, the only station with appreciable Amtrak service, gets no rapid transit connection. It makes no sense. If the tunnel is still there it should be a simple matter of opening it up again I would think. That is ridiculously low hanging fruit. Unless it was filled in or something. Anyone have any more background on this thing?

Why would a two story stairwell with limited security that will 100% be infested with urine within 6 months be a benefit?

By removing the only bar in 30th St?

By not being ADA compliant?

By not costing 3 Million to install elevators to make it ADA compliant?

**Alley** · 06-15-2011, 02:24 PM

I had no idea there was originally a tunnel connection that is pretty cool. I'm nervous walking up the steps from the El to walk over to 30th street sometimes day or night. I cannot imagine I would use a tunnel connection and feel safe. Bummer it has to be that way.

**Juniataexile** · 06-15-2011, 03:06 PM

I used to walk through that tunnel all the time. It was brown, wet and nasty. Still, it
seems more "big city" than the current arrangement. Especially if you've just gotten
off the train from NY or DC.
Unfortunately that doesn't justify the cost of re-opening it.

**Insoluble** · 06-15-2011, 06:44 PM

This makes me sad. Seriously, it's a shame that we don't have a direct connection to the MFL from 30th street station. I don't doubt all the folks on here saying it was bad, but still. It would help cut down the jaywalking at 30th and Market and would just be way more convenient. Maybe someday.

**caL** · 06-15-2011, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Insoluble

This makes me sad. Seriously, it's a shame that we don't have a direct connection to the MFL from 30th street station. I don't doubt all the folks on here saying it was bad, but still. It would help cut down the jaywalking at 30th and Market and would just be way more convenient. Maybe someday.

Personally, of all the capital projects that would improve this city, I can't think of one that's less important. It's not like the el station is by the Amtrack and RR stations, causing people to have to walk down to Market and back up. It's literally a matter of crossing a narrow two lane street vs bypassing the street via a piss infested tunnel. A matter of preference I guess but tomato/tomoto decisions are not worth millions.

**ArcticSplash** · 06-15-2011, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by MariusPontmercy

Any worse than at 15th St/Suburban or Market East? We're gonna have bums no matter what. You can't wall off a connection like that because you see a homeless person. If we did that we would have to shut down the entire subway system. I think, I hope, that the traffic those two stations handle now is enough to outweigh the vagrancy problems.

The tunnel exit opens up in the kitchen of the bar. The tunnel also connects the stations outside fare control, which basically is an invitation for Philly's aggressive bums to loiter and camp out there since SEPTA will really only police fare-control areas aggressively as that is closer to their expensive assets and employees than service corridors.

There's also a big shelter right by 30th Street Station [when shelters moved in this caused the vagrancy problem that closed the connection to begin with]. Until bums no longer want to hang around 30th Street Station, which will be never [go light up a cig near the taxi stands and see how many seconds go by before you get bumrushed], the tunnel will stay closed.

The only way I could see re-opening this tunnel would be to make it available for Transpass and token users only with an attendant inside 30th Street Station, and the tunnel gated through the concourse level to allow tunnel users to go straight past fare control to the platforms. Either way, security would have to be present to keep the tunnel clear of piss because there is a food establishment right at the tunnel exit, and some interior decorating work would have to be done to the bar's space to add more space to the far end of the bar and move the front entrance over to the side 15 feet so passengers can use the tunnel again.

**mixiboi** · 06-15-2011, 08:20 PM

But as desolate said, they would have to make it ADA approved, so million dollar elevators are a no....

**supersupper** · 06-15-2011, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by caL

Personally, of all the capital projects that would improve this city, I can't think of one that's less important. It's not like the el station is by the Amtrack and RR stations, causing people to have to walk down to Market and back up. It's literally a matter of crossing a narrow two lane street vs bypassing the street via a piss infested tunnel. A matter of preference I guess but tomato/tomoto decisions are not worth millions.

I really hate that station. I enjoy using AMTRAK and the EL/subway home, but that station's weird access just ruins everything. It's hard to explain, and yes it seem insignificant, but i've paid for taxis many a time instead of simply walking over there to catch a subway home.

I used to consider it a fun luxury to take AMTRAK up to NY despite the cost, but because of that piss poor connection I now prefer the BOLT/MEGA busses.

**BarryG** · 06-16-2011, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by supersupper

I really hate that station. I enjoy using AMTRAK and the EL/subway home, but that station's weird access just ruins everything. It's hard to explain, and yes it seem insignificant, but i've paid for taxis many a time instead of simply walking over there to catch a subway home.

I used to consider it a fun luxury to take AMTRAK up to NY despite the cost, but because of that piss poor connection I now prefer the BOLT/MEGA busses.

Please, try to explain how the connection from the el to the bolt bus stop is easier than to Amtrak, because they are identical.

**supersupper** · 06-16-2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by BarryG

Please, try to explain how the connection from the el to the bolt bus stop is easier than to Amtrak, because they are identical.

Not Bolt Bus- you are right that would be identical.

I walk from my OC front door a few blocks to the Mega Bus stop.

**BarryG** · 06-16-2011, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by supersupper

Not Bolt Bus- you are right that would be identical.

I walk from my OC front door a few blocks to the Mega Bus stop.

I didn't know there was a Megabus stop in Old City. That is good to know.

**desolate** · 06-16-2011, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Insoluble

This makes me sad. Seriously, it's a shame that we don't have a direct connection to the MFL from 30th street station. I don't doubt all the folks on here saying it was bad, but still. It would help cut down the jaywalking at 30th and Market and would just be way more convenient. Maybe someday.

Crazy me says close the street there and redirect all the traffic down JFK.

**desolate** · 06-16-2011, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by BarryG

I didn't know there was a Megabus stop in Old City. That is good to know.

That's where all those obnoxious buses on Market and in Chinatown come from.

They are hopefully moving all of that out, as it does little for the curb appeal down there.

Broad from City Hall to VIne is usually a line of buses back over to NJ.

**BarryG** · 06-16-2011, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by desolate

That's where all those obnoxious buses on Market and in Chinatown come from.

They are hopefully moving all of that out, as it does little for the curb appeal down there.

Broad from City Hall to VIne is usually a line of buses back over to NJ.

I'd like to see a proper bus terminal somewhere, like Port Authority in NY or South Station in Boston. Either replacing the existing Greyhound Terminal or next to 30th St.