Traffic Ticket negotiation?

[TeddyP27]

Hey gang! What's the best way to negotiate a plea bargain or possible dismissal a speeding ticket in Philly Traffic Court? I'm going to plead "Not Guilty" and post the deposit in anticipation of the court date. Any tips?

[joek]

In my experience, plead not guilty and appear for your court date. They will almost always offer you a plea deal that will slightly reduce your offense and knock off any points. Basically, it's total sham -- they just want the cash, and the way they do this makes it so obvious that they don't actually care about giving anyone any kind of actual fair trial. Total kangaroo court for the most part. Anyway, it doesn't matter if the cop does or doesn't show up -- so don't count on that, because the judge usually won't care. If you don't accept the deal, you'll go before the judge, and he or she will likely offer you a similar deal. Or they may not. Or they may be nice that day and side with you. You never really know at that point. It almost seems completely random. Also, I really hate to say this, but it helps if you're black. Seriously. Best of luck.

[PASnow]

Pretty much what joek said. They just want the cash, as do all munincipalities. They'll likely offer to waive the points if you agree to pay the fine. You can stand by your moral grounds & try to fight it, I dunno if I would. Speeding is speeding. Just don't get the points or your insurance could go up. One other thing, the Philly court is so backed up & slow it's pretty much a half day or all day affair, depending on you "scheduled" time (ie if it's at 11am just take the whole day off). It isn't a 1 hour in & out affair.

[Ho Chi Minh]

As stated above. Though, my experience has been you will need to go to court twice. First time you will plead NG and loose. There will be no offer of a deal.

Then you appeal, at this hearing there will be about a dozen defendants in the court room, the prosecuter(s) will ask you all one by one if you want to pead down. Pay the fine, no points. Everyone takes the deal, and the hearings are all wrapped up in one "group plea".

You will waste the better part of day at each hearing.

[joek]

As stated above. Though, my experience has been you will need to go to court twice. First time you will plead NG and loose. There will be no offer of a deal.

Then you appeal, at this hearing there will be about a dozen defendants in the court room, the prosecuter(s) will ask you all one by one if you want to pead down. Pay the fine, no points. Everyone takes the deal, and the hearings are all wrapped up in one "group plea".

You will waste the better part of day at each hearing.

I've never had to go twice. They basically handed everyone a piece of paper outlining the deal they were offering to give. If you took, you signed it and were done. Otherwise you wait to see the judge. This was a few years ago, though, so things may have changed.

But yeah, don't plan on getting in-and-out of there. I don't remember it taking an outrageous amount of time. But it certainly wasn't quick.

[BenDee]

I've done the following process for my two tickets (speeding ticket and running a stop sign). Both times I have been successful, once getting points knocked off, once cutting fine in half as well:

1) If you have a lawyer-friend (doesn't matter their field beyond being allowed to practice in PA), have them send over a form stating that they are your lawyer (I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head)

2) The day of the hearing, show up by yourself (no lawyer), and tell the judge instead of a postponing, you will waive your right to counsel if they knock off the points (and possibly cut the fine in half, depending if you want to push your luck).

EDIT: Oh, and show up half-decently (khakis and a polo, clean cut, showered). The number of people who come in looking hungover in sweatpants, ripped jeans, etc. is crazy.

[TeddyP27]

OK.. NG plea is in, collateral & fee paid.. appearance date is on ticket. I had heard that asking for a continuance once also lowers the likelihood of a successful negotiation or possible drop of the ticket. THoughts? (BTW: business dress is always a must for court. When I worked with delinquent teens I always told them to dress well and we'd get to 1801 Vine and there'd be others with ball shorts, t's and girls with way too much showing..)

[TeddyP27]

Here's the summary:

8:40am - On-steet parking for $4 for 2 hours
8:50am - through the metal detector and off to Willie Singletary's courtroom to check-in.
9:00am - Court Police officer starts calling many people up to explain that they could agree to no points/no record and forfeit the escrow payment/pay the fine.
9:20am - Court Police officer gives a rundown of the process for the day and how points work.
9:30am - Judge sits and they start calling defendants in groups of 3-4 to accept plea agreements - I'm in the second group and apparently I didn't see the .50 at the end of my fine and they direct me across the hall to pay fitty cent. This causes a few giggles in the crowd.
9:50am - Done with Traffic Court

If you are a first time ticketee, definitely go this route. If you are a multiple offender (and there seemed to be a few so they wanted to clear out the quick cases) then you are SOL.

[joek]

Thanks for updating! I'm sure this will be helpful to people in the future. Such a sham, though -- they don't even hide the fact that this is all about the money.

[TeddyP27]

I was also the only defendant sporting a tie. There were 2 guys in business casual, one in camo fatigues (working the military angle?), and everyone else in jeans/t's etc except for the one gentleman in muslim garb.

[NickleDimer]

I was also the only defendant sporting a tie. There were 2 guys in business casual, one in camo fatigues (working the military angle?), and everyone else in jeans/t's etc except for the one gentleman in muslim garb.

It took an hour and ten minutes?!?! I've done this 3 or 4 times in various suburban courts and was always met by the officer shortly after checked in, he offered the deal (never a judge involved), I signed the form and left. 10 minutes max.

[bonzombiekitty]

As others have said, you will almost always be offered a plea right off the bat. Unless you are serial offender, or did something really serious, they would rather just get the money rather than try to make sure you get points on your license.

Two years and half years ago, I accidentally bumped into the car in front of me at a stop sign. No damage or anything, just a slight tap. Two months later, I got a ticket for the incident in the mail. I was out of the country at the time, so I didn't get it until I past the due date. I freaked out, and mailed it in with a guilty plea. A couple days later I had a letter telling me that I owed a fine for sending in the payment late. I went down to traffic court to show them I was not in the country when the ticket was sent so could we forgo the fine? The girl told me that I really should just appeal the initial ticket so I don't get points on my license. I filed the appeal, paid $20 to do it, and a couple weeks later had to go to the appeals court. At the appeals they immediately sat a dozen of us at a table and said "We'll knock you down to no-points violations if you just plead guilty".

[TeddyP27]

It took an hour and ten minutes?!?! I've done this 3 or 4 times in various suburban courts and was always met by the officer shortly after checked in, he offered the deal (never a judge involved), I signed the form and left. 10 minutes max.

...various suburban courts... that's funny!

[hubba1]

...various suburban courts... that's funny!

Was gonna say the same thing... the key word there is SUBURBAN... I went to a municipal court in Jim Thorpe PA once, was in and out in 5 minutes... that was JIM THORPE, PA- that's not happening in Philly traffic court. I think the judge in Jim Thorpe let me go because I actually drove from Philly, a month after the ticket, to plead my case- he basically said, you drove an hour and a half to get here, that's more than the State trooper that pulled you over could say... your free, and we will send you a check for the first payment you made toward the ticket"

[PASnow]

H
9:30am - Judge sits and they start calling defendants in groups of 3-4 to accept plea agreements - I'm in the second group and apparently I didn't see the .50 at the end of my fine and they direct me across the hall to pay fitty cent. This causes a few giggles in the crowd.

That's funny. I was going to mention I did the same thing ($.50 short too) and advise you pay the full amount. You were lucky, when I went 'across the hall' the line was massive! One of those situations where 3 or 4 people are back in the office yet only 1 was attending to customers. It literally took me well over an hour to get to the window, in fact they opened another payment window somewhere pretty far down the hall because it was getting close to 5pm & I followed about 10 or 20 people down to there. Yeah, that part was a big headache for me.

[Volanova]

I suggest the World Series defense.