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  1. #121
    Juniataexile is online now Member
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    I hope so.

  2. #122
    jslader is offline Senior Member
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    AA and US Airways boards have agreed to merge; announcement on Thurs.

    Reading the airliners.net thread I felt good about Philly's chances going forward. Philly is the only airport of its kind-outside of EWR (Newark) with such close access to the Northeast. It already is a megahub for US Airways, and is positioned to be the same for the new AA. Laguardia and JFK.will primarily focus on the O&D market for AA, while Philly should be the main hub (it was pointed out many times-with numbers to back-that JFK is not technically a "hub", although very busy). Some trans-atlantic flights will leave PHL for JFK, and vice versa, where it makes sense.

    Reading that thread, I don't think AA will abandon Philly, even if the city went ahead with the expansion; the airport, its assets and location are too important. For similar reasons, I doubt UPS would leave to, although they have more flexibility.

  3. #123
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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  4. #124
    Lakey is offline Senior Member
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    I read through a US presentation included as part of their SEC filing. It descibes repeatedly PHL's importance as a domestic connecting hub for the merged airline. There's a lot less detail about PHL regarding international service. The presentation mentions that adding the US network to AA's increases service to Europe. It also mentions that they will offer BA connections through PHL and CLT to 10x the number of destinations in the eastern 1/2 of the country than BA curently has from JFK. Also, LGA/JFK are cited as important markets for domestic O/D and international. They propose to take DL head on at LGA/JFK for NYC corporate contracts which will require a strong international presence at JFK. In short, they aren't going to de-hub PHL and they aren't going to deemphasize LGA/JFK either. I still expect US/AA to use PHL as a TATL connecting hub. The question is at what scale and my guess is that it's going to be fluid over the next few years as they try to optimize routes, fleet etc.

  5. #125
    jslader is offline Senior Member
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    It was mentioned many times in the Airliners.net thread that currently PHL and JFK/DCA serve two different markets-the NYC airports the huge NY O&D traffic, while PHL is primarily a connecting hub between the NE and the rest of the country. Because the NYC airports have little to no room to grow, and also have lots of competition, whereas AA will have little competition at PHL and be able to serve domestic and international traffic on all directions, DCA/JFK should complemented rather than compete with PHL. Some TAFLT will move to JFK, while some domestic routes will come to PHL. However, PHL should keep a few TAFLT (the popular flight to Tel Aviv an example), while losing flights to smaller markets-MAD, for example.

  6. #126
    Juniataexile is online now Member
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    Airliners.net also had people predicting bad things for PHL; not that they're right. The bad news brigade would argue that JFK doesn't have to absorb all the PHL-connecting TATL people, maybe there is money to be made in sending them through ORD or DFW.

    PHL might get more British Airways service, that's cool. Some predict Lufthansa will exit PHL now but that's not necessarily true, LH was here before any alliances with US Airways. If memory serves they were here before US Airways existed.

    Time will tell.

    "All fixed, fast frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away... All that is solid melts into air...." Marx and Engels
    Last edited by Juniataexile; 02-15-2013 at 05:19 PM.

  7. #127
    Lakey is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juniataexile View Post
    Airliners.net also had people predicting bad things for PHL; not that they're right. The bad news brigade would argue that JFK doesn't have to absorb all the PHL-connecting TATL people, maybe there is money to be made in sending them through ORD or DFW.

    PHL might get more British Airways service, that's cool. Some predict Lufthansa will exit PHL now but that's not necessarily true, LH was here before any alliances with US Airways. If memory serves they were here before US Airways existed.

    Time will tell.

    "All fixed, fast frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away... All that is solid melts into air...." Marx and Engels
    That's why I was glad to find US's investor presentation. It's just a little more reliable than the musings of message board posters, not that I ever expected that PHL would cease to be a hub after the merger. You're correct that LH has been at PHL for a long time, long enough that I can't recall when they began serving PHL. My guess is that LH continues PHL service because of SAP. I can't imagine that they aren't contracted with SAP and with what I assume are a lot of SAP connected passengers they'll fill their planes even without feed from US. As for what happens with international service overall, as you said, time will tell.

    Bringing this back to the topic of airport expansion ... it will be interesting to see what post-merger AA's position is on reconfiguring the airfield a year or so from now. It seems as though the recent two year agreement was designed to allow everyone to delay making a decsion about the airfield until after the merger is completed. Ultimately, even with eventual improvements to ATC, it isn't going to be possible to increase capacity in any meaningful way without airfield reconfiguration. AA may be content to keep future operations at roughly current levels, then again they may not. Assuming that they don't completely screw up the merger (not a given), the good news for the city is there should be a much higher probability that PHL will remain a major hub for the foreseeable future which makes major captial expenditures less risky.

  8. #128
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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    Link from a post El made

    Looks like a PHL to Brazil daily could possibly be in the future

    Delta expects profit from Trainer refinery

  9. #129
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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  10. #130
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    mixiboi is offline Philly Remixed
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    This is taking forever..but what is new? lol

    But at least we know what going to happen next at 2PM today.
    Graphic Designer, Social Media Consultant. Twitter: @Sdlaugh

  11. #131
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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  12. #132
    JakeL is offline Senior Member
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    I keep hearing that the issue isn't the runways but rather the airspace being located so close to NYC, Newark, BWA, and Regan, however, the city keeps pressing on an expansion. Who's right here?

    Will GPS guided planes solve the congestion issue and we'll need additional runway? Or is this just some pet project for politicians?

  13. #133
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    Tartan69 is offline Pawn in game of life
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeL View Post
    I keep hearing that the issue isn't the runways but rather the airspace being located so close to NYC, Newark, BWA, and Regan, however, the city keeps pressing on an expansion. Who's right here?

    Will GPS guided planes solve the congestion issue and we'll need additional runway? Or is this just some pet project for politicians?
    Absolutely, it's an issue with the entire northeast. You are right that GPS will fix this...just needs to be finished. Sounds like funding is the problem:

    What's keeping FAA's NextGen air traffic control on the runway? | GCN
    Delays Threaten FAA's $40B Air Traffic Control Overhaul | Law360
    Nation Needs Costly But Safer Air Traffic System | Hartford Courant

    If investment is available for the airport now, I say go ahead and start using it as it may not be there when the FAA catches up. Not to mention that a lot of the improvements will enhance the airport even if the increased traffic doesn't arrive.

  14. #134
    eldondre is online now Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeL View Post
    I keep hearing that the issue isn't the runways but rather the airspace being located so close to NYC, Newark, BWA, and Regan, however, the city keeps pressing on an expansion. Who's right here?

    Will GPS guided planes solve the congestion issue and we'll need additional runway? Or is this just some pet project for politicians?
    in fact thats what the american and ups are saying. apparently the city still hasnt gotten their buy in
    Phila. settles dispute with Delco town over airport expansion
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
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  15. #135
    eldondre is online now Moderator
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    does anyone know what the busiest route at PHL is (city pair)?
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  16. #136
    seand is offline Senior Member
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    Noticed in a recent fare search that Frontier is now running a fair amount of flights out of PHL, rounding out SouthWest and Jet Blue as low-cost carriers keeping US Air/American on their toes price wise, which is always a good thing.

  17. #137
    phillyaggie is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post
    Noticed in a recent fare search that Frontier is now running a fair amount of flights out of PHL, rounding out SouthWest and Jet Blue as low-cost carriers keeping US Air/American on their toes price wise, which is always a good thing.
    I'm finding that Southwest isn't so cheap anymore and sometimes in fact are more expensive than legacy carriers... plus they often stop in some city to pickup/drop off passengers along the way. Frontier doesn't fly to a lot of destinations and doesn't have many flights even to places it does fly; Jetblue is slightly better in terms of frequency and reach... but really, a full blown legacy carrier adding more service to PHL would be a real boon.

    Would be nice to see a bulked up United/Continental take more gates or fly to more destinations from PHL. I recently used them on two trips and was pleasantly surprised. I think Continental has long had a good internal culture and strong business sense as well as customer service (not unlike that of Southwest), and that's rubbed off on the merged company too (Continental was the senior of the two and its CEO is now the CEO of the merged company).

    U.S. Air/American are a combo of dregs of the industry... hopefully they get better now that they have cleared legacy debt and restructured their labor contracts, and now renewing/refreshing their fleet...oldest and most beaten up planes of any are flown by this combo...
    "The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That's the only difference."
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  18. #138
    seand is offline Senior Member
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    I agree Southwest is not always so cheap anymore but its arrival at PHL immediately forced US Air to compete on price in a way they never had to before. I remember prices dropped like 15% immediately. Jet Blue and Frontier did the same on the destinations they do serve. Don't knock the little budget carriers.

  19. #139
    eldondre is online now Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyaggie View Post
    I'm finding that Southwest isn't so cheap anymore and sometimes in fact are more expensive than legacy carriers... plus they often stop in some city to pickup/drop off passengers along the way. Frontier doesn't fly to a lot of destinations and doesn't have many flights even to places it does fly; Jetblue is slightly better in terms of frequency and reach... but really, a full blown legacy carrier adding more service to PHL would be a real boon.
    Would be nice to see a bulked up United/Continental take more gates or fly to more destinations from PHL. I recently used them on two trips and was pleasantly surprised. I think Continental has long had a good internal culture and strong business sense as well as customer service (not unlike that of Southwest), and that's rubbed off on the merged company too (Continental was the senior of the two and its CEO is now the CEO of the merged company).
    U.S. Air/American are a combo of dregs of the industry... hopefully they get better now that they have cleared legacy debt and restructured their labor contracts, and now renewing/refreshing their fleet...oldest and most beaten up planes of any are flown by this combo...
    I don't know about the dregs comment, people like to hate on US Air but they went from perennial basket case to profitable before any of the other legacy carriers. I never much liked american or united.
    the thing about US Air is they price based on supply and demand, when there's competition their prices are low, when there isn't they are high. during my last trip to chicago I found that southwest was cheaper than US Air but slightly more than frontier (with a bag fee). I took southwest as I prefer midway and it was reasonable. one thing I did notice is that frontier doesn't gouge you for last minute purchases so if you want to fly this weekend the prices won't be astronomical. anyway, to your other point, I'm hoping that Jetblue establishes service to san juan where it has a hub now
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  20. #140
    phillyaggie is offline Senior Member
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    It's not even just US Air, although I've only flown with them a few times so far and the experience is just so-so. It's also the old American Airlines-- their fleet (even now, although they are rapidly updating) has for long consisted of old-line MD-80s... not only are they fuel-guzzlers, they're old and not that great. And more and a couple times, the old American Airlines' totally screwed over their cabin staff when it came time for sharing in the profits, while the c-suite got hefty bonuses...that, after they got the cabin staff to take cuts... the morale of those working on those planes would naturally suffer, and the flying public often "pays" for it.

    I may be wrong but my impression has been that Continental has had good morale, same as Southwest. Company culture can be pooh-poohed among number crunchers but it really does matter... I have never had a bad experience with Southwest...

    Anyways, here's hoping the new AA gets better and better...
    "The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That's the only difference."
    - Ralph Nader

 

 

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