Landlord Illegally Restored Water Service

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 09:06 AM

So we have been having some issues with the landlord (Fishtown,) and it has come to a bit of a boiling point. His primary flaw is that his is simply absentee and doesn't respond to calls or texts. We have also heard from previous tenants that he doesn't give back the deposit, although none of them seem to have actually pursued this in court...we still believe it to be true.

We got a notice from The Water Board months ago saying that a huge debt was owed and it would be turned off if it wasn't taken care of. The landlord told us that it was a legal situation he was aware of and actively fixing, and then joked (we thought) that if they did turn it off he'd just show up and turn it back on.
We noticed shortly thereafter that the water meter was marked with a blue paint mark, which we believe is something the water board does when the water has been shut off... and we just tried to ignore it.

Yesterday someone showed up used a water key, shoved it down the hole out on the street and turned off the water. I was not home to witness this but my upstairs neighbor said she ran out and was told 'talk to the landlord'. She said she called him, he came out and he turned it back on.

I am not comfortable with this arrangement. This is obviously illegal and maybe even a felony. I have called the water board to report it. I know you're probably reading this thinking I'm nuts, but I can buy bottled water and I have a gym membership for showering - this will last me long enough to find a new place if it comes to that (and ultimately it OBVIOUSLY will.) If the water gets turned back on I want it done legally. I am assuming the city will be sending someone out to turn it off again and I am wondering if I should call the police the next time the landlord shows up to turn it back on?

Other than looking for somewhere else to live ASAP, how should this be handled?

**ArcticSplash** · 10-09-2012, 09:19 AM

Did the LL obtain a Phila Housing License?

Go to Phila.gov/LI and look up the address in the right hand side. Look for a Housing License under the Permits and Licenses section. If you don't see it there, it's an illegal rental.

And if that is the case, time to get an L&I inspection and NOV on the landlord. You can file that complaint here:

City of Philadelphia: Report a Problem

**Eastcoast** · 10-09-2012, 09:19 AM

Hey Batman, did you come to an agreement with the other tenants in the building before reporting to the water dept that the water had been turned back on?

Are they as fiscally and physically able to find a new place in short order like you are?

**ArcticSplash** · 10-09-2012, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Hey Batman, did you come to an agreement with the other tenants in the building before reporting to the water dept that the water had been turned back on?

Are they as fiscally and physically able to find a new place in short order like you are?

He doesn't need to consult with anyone to report a PWD disconnection violation. It could be a pissed-off neighbor across the street.

BTW felony-schmelony. City doesn't really care if the water was reconnected but in this case you have tenants racking up water debt that the landlord is supposed to be paying. In Philadelphia, the property owner gets the water bills--the City does not do tenant services and doesn't put the water in any of the tenants names.

If the water is turned back off, you can immediately withhold rent. In order to do that you must establish a savings account at a bank (your rent check will be your opening deposit). You need to send a certified letter that the water has been shut off by the Water Revenue Bureau/PWD and that immediately invalidates your Lease Agreement because the landlord has broken it.

And then you need to find a new apartment pronto. Chances are excellent that this landlord will have some difficulty filing an eviction against you.

BTW I mean what I said about checking the Housing License and reporting it if there isn't one. Do that right now. It will give you a little added immunity if the Landlord attempts eviction in the case of a rent strike.

If the landlord files suit in Landlord-Tenant for nonpayment of rent, you will need those bank statements from the bank showing the judge the escrow. It's your call if you want to go into arbitration with the landlord at the time of the hearing. If it were me I would not unless you get Judge Deni... she is miserable and hates working L/T so if you get her overseeing your L/T case I would at least half-heartedly try arbitration.

**Eastcoast** · 10-09-2012, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by ArcticSplash

He doesn't need to consult with anyone to report a PWD disconnection violation. It could be a pissed-off neighbor across the street.

BTW felony-schmelony. City doesn't really care if the water was reconnected but in this case you have tenants racking up water debt that the landlord is supposed to be paying. In Philadelphia, the property owner gets the water bills--the City does not do tenant services and doesn't put the water in any of the tenants names.

If the water is turned back off, you can immediately withhold rent. In order to do that you must establish a savings account at a bank (your rent check will be your opening deposit). You need to send a certified letter that the water has been shut off by the Water Revenue Bureau/PWD and that immediately invalidates your Lease Agreement because the landlord has broken it.

And then you need to find a new apartment pronto. Chances are excellent that this landlord will have some difficulty filing an eviction against you.

BTW I mean what I said about checking the Housing License and reporting it if there isn't one. Do that right now. It will give you a little added immunity if the Landlord attempts eviction in the case of a rent strike.

MY point is he possibly just screwed his neighbors which at the end of the day is supremely uncool.

Yes the landlord is ultimately responsible and should be held accountable.

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Hey Batman, did you come to an agreement with the other tenants in the building before reporting to the water dept that the water had been turned back on?

Are they as fiscally and physically able to find a new place in short order like you are?

Yes, Robin, I did. You know, when you presume, you make an ass out of Uma Therman...

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

MY point is he possibly just screwed his neighbors which at the end of the day is supremely uncool.

Yes the landlord is ultimately responsible and should be held accountable.

...and your point would hold validity if you were so informed as to draw that conclusion, but as you were lacking sufficient information to do so it really just makes you seem like a presumptuous *******.

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

MY point is he possibly just screwed his neighbors which at the end of the day is supremely uncool.

Yes the landlord is ultimately responsible and should be held accountable.

Thank you for all of your input and information. I was aware of all of it (except that particular judge - nice insider scoop, thanks!) and I am aware that the landlord does not hold a rental license. He actually owns and rents numerous properties on the block, all illegallly. I moved in on an existing lease that my roommate already held, and only after an issue with the water heater did I explore the licensing status and discover his lack of one. The thing is that we don't live in a slum or some kind of situation one might normally associate with these kinds of problems. It's a better than decent apartment in an up and coming neighborhood, so we elected to tolerate the absentee behavior of the landlord. Unfortunately the gap between absentee landlord and complete water shut-off is monumental, and obviously something we can't tolerate.

Right now the upstairs tenants are talking things over with us so we can decide how to proceed. I just didn't know whether or not we should get the police involved, IE: call 911 when he comes by to manually switch the water back on.

**Eastcoast** · 10-09-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by jaybeebrad

...and your point would hold validity if you were so informed as to draw that conclusion, but as you were lacking sufficient information to do so it really just makes you seem like a presumptuous *******.

Working from the info you shared.

Now go find a new place to live.

**billy ross** · 10-09-2012, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by jaybeebrad

So we have been having some issues with the landlord (Fishtown,) and it has come to a bit of a boiling point. His primary flaw is that his is simply absentee and doesn't respond to calls or texts. We have also heard from previous tenants that he doesn't give back the deposit, although none of them seem to have actually pursued this in court...we still believe it to be true.

We got a notice from The Water Board months ago saying that a huge debt was owed and it would be turned off if it wasn't taken care of. The landlord told us that it was a legal situation he was aware of and actively fixing, and then joked (we thought) that if they did turn it off he'd just show up and turn it back on.
We noticed shortly thereafter that the water meter was marked with a blue paint mark, which we believe is something the water board does when the water has been shut off... and we just tried to ignore it.

Yesterday someone showed up used a water key, shoved it down the hole out on the street and turned off the water. I was not home to witness this but my upstairs neighbor said she ran out and was told 'talk to the landlord'. She said she called him, he came out and he turned it back on.

I am not comfortable with this arrangement. This is obviously illegal and maybe even a felony. I have called the water board to report it. I know you're probably reading this thinking I'm nuts, but I can buy bottled water and I have a gym membership for showering - this will last me long enough to find a new place if it comes to that (and ultimately it OBVIOUSLY will.) If the water gets turned back on I want it done legally. I am assuming the city will be sending someone out to turn it off again and I am wondering if I should call the police the next time the landlord shows up to turn it back on?

Other than looking for somewhere else to live ASAP, how should this be handled?

Marking the water service with blue paint has nothing to do with a shutoff.

When the water is shutoff for nonpayment, the water department leaves a notice that this has occurred along with a balance due and instructions for how to turn it back on again.

Water bills are public record. If you know your block code (which you can get from any neighbor), you can go to the water revenue bureau's website and look up the water account there and find out how much is due.

Originally Posted by ArcticSplash

He doesn't need to consult with anyone to report a PWD disconnection violation. It could be a pissed-off neighbor across the street.

BTW felony-schmelony. City doesn't really care if the water was reconnected but in this case you have tenants racking up water debt that the landlord is supposed to be paying. In Philadelphia, the property owner gets the water bills--the City does not do tenant services and doesn't put the water in any of the tenants names.

If the water is turned back off, you can immediately withhold rent. In order to do that you must establish a savings account at a bank (your rent check will be your opening deposit). You need to send a certified letter that the water has been shut off by the Water Revenue Bureau/PWD and that immediately invalidates your Lease Agreement because the landlord has broken it.

And then you need to find a new apartment pronto. Chances are excellent that this landlord will have some difficulty filing an eviction against you.

BTW I mean what I said about checking the Housing License and reporting it if there isn't one. Do that right now. It will give you a little added immunity if the Landlord attempts eviction in the case of a rent strike.

If the landlord files suit in Landlord-Tenant for nonpayment of rent, you will need those bank statements from the bank showing the judge the escrow. It's your call if you want to go into arbitration with the landlord at the time of the hearing. If it were me I would not unless you get Judge Deni... she is miserable and hates working L/T so if you get her overseeing your L/T case I would at least half-heartedly try arbitration.

I require my tenants to put the water bills in their names, as I detest dealing with the water revenue bureau in person.

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Working from the info you shared.

Now go find a new place to live.

No, you were working with the info I shared plus non-info gleamed from your ill-informed assumptions.

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by billy ross

Water bills are public record. If you know your block code (which you can get from any neighbor), you can go to the water revenue bureau's website and look up the water account there and find out how much is due.

I'm not sure where you got this information, but I have dealt with the water department before and the information most certainly is NOT public record. They will not discuss amounts owed with anyone but the person whose name is in the account. I previously had a landlady who did not pay the bill after a major basement flood and dealt with a similar situation, and they would tell me NOTHING. If in fact they were misleading me at the water department, please show me on their website where I would look up the water account:

City of Philadelphia

**Eastcoast** · 10-09-2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by jaybeebrad

No, you were working with the info I shared plus non-info gleamed from your ill-informed assumptions.

Ill-informed by your post.

Now go find a new place to live.

**CivilGideon** · 10-09-2012, 10:53 AM

JBB,
This looks like an USTRA issue. The Utility Service Tenants Rights Act (USTRA), 68 P.S. 399.1, et seq., protects tenants from disruption of water service for landlord nonpayment. If the property is "reasonably likely" to be tenant occupied, Water Revenue should have sent you a notice 30 days in advance of shut off for landlord nonpayment. That notice would have explained your rights under USTRA. Since it is a multiple-unit dwelling, and assuming this is known to the City, there should be no doubt the property is "reasonably likely" to be tenant occupied. Also, because it's multiple unit, it will be harder, if not impossible to get tenant service directly. USTRA is a better way to go. Under USTRA, tenants have the right to pay the 30-day bill to continue service, each month, and deduct that payment from rent. Your landlord is prohibited from retaliating against you for the exercise of these rights. If you did not receive the notice, you and your fellow tenants should call/visit WRB, 1401 JFK, Concourse level, to get "tenant certified". That will allow you to continue to lawfully receive service, so long as you pay the 30-day bill.
Good luck.

**billy ross** · 10-09-2012, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by jaybeebrad

I'm not sure where you got this information, but I have dealt with the water department before and the information most certainly is NOT public record. They will not discuss amounts owed with anyone but the person whose name is in the account. I previously had a landlady who did not pay the bill after a major basement flood and dealt with a similar situation, and they would tell me NOTHING. If in fact they were misleading me at the water department, please show me on their website where I would look up the water account:

City of Philadelphia

They won't talk about it with you on the phone, but as long as you have the account number you can look it up at the department of revenue's website. Just go to the 'pay bill online' function. To get the account number, you get that notice you got with the shutoff, or a copy of the bill, or a copy of anyone's bill on that block, but subsitute your address for their address. Generally it'll be 056-xxxxx-five digit address-001. All you need is the block code, which is the same for every house on that block, and generally adjacent blocks, too.

You need to understand that the water revenue bureau is responsible for billing. You need to look under the department of revenue, not the philadelphia water department.

**ArcticSplash** · 10-09-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by billy ross

They won't talk about it with you on the phone, but as long as you have the account number you can look it up at the department of revenue's website. Just go to the 'pay bill online' function. <SNIP>

You need to understand that the water revenue bureau is responsible for billing. You need to look under the department of revenue, not the philadelphia water department.

SHH bross you need to delete that or they'll start changing their systems. I use that to look up bills when Council aides won't give the info to me willingly.

**sharkey** · 10-09-2012, 01:28 PM

First of all, you are assuming that the LL did not pay the bill or make a payment agreement. If he did either of those things then there is no problem with him turning the water back on himself in order to save the turn-on fee and also to get it restored faster. I have dealt with the water dept. and don't assume the LL is in the wrong---the PWD does some crazy stuff. Finally, PWD DOES put water services in tenant's names, however if they don't pay then the LL still gets screwed because the PWD can lien his property even with the account not in his name.

**jaybeebrad** · 10-09-2012, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by billy ross

They won't talk about it with you on the phone, but as long as you have the account number you can look it up at the department of revenue's website. Just go to the 'pay bill online' function. To get the account number, you get that notice you got with the shutoff, or a copy of the bill, or a copy of anyone's bill on that block, but subsitute your address for their address. Generally it'll be 056-xxxxx-five digit address-001. All you need is the block code, which is the same for every house on that block, and generally adjacent blocks, too.

You need to understand that the water revenue bureau is responsible for billing. You need to look under the department of revenue, not the philadelphia water department.

Ok. I'm not sure what to put in 'five digit address' block... the zip code? I can find the block code pretty easily, but what do I put in 'five digit address'? So it would be 056-BLOCKCODE-(????)-001..?

***Nevermind - I figured it out, found it on the property tax records online. Basically just a 0 in front of the four digit address. Thanks!

**billy ross** · 10-09-2012, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by jaybeebrad

Ok. I'm not sure what to put in 'five digit address' block... the zip code? I can find the block code pretty easily, but what do I put in 'five digit address'? So it would be 056-BLOCKCODE-(????)-001..?

***Nevermind - I figured it out, found it on the property tax records online. Basically just a 0 in front of the four digit address. Thanks!

Now I need you to answer a question that's been bothering me for awhile. How do I find the block code if I don't have access to the water bill or a neighboring property's bill? Is that from the BRT/OPA?

Also, how much does your landlord owe? It takes awhile for that number online to update after a payment. Of course, if the bill is paid on time as it's supposed to be, there is no huge number that builds up.

Edit - it's not the OPA number. How did you find the block code pretty easily? That'd make things easier for me if I could just conjure that up.

**StrangeTanks** · 10-10-2012, 08:42 AM

I'm not going to argue the legalities of turning water on or off, obviously your landlord has something going on with the PWD and needs to handle his business.

It confuses me a little bit however that this particular bit of illegal activity has the OP so outraged. I can understand being concerned about having the water shut off at some inconvenient moment, but other than that I have a hard time understanding what the big deal is as far as being a tenant is concerned. I'm assuming that the OP isn't paying for the water.

In my mind this is the same as making a citizens arrest because you saw someone doing 65mph where the speed limit is 55. Then furiously searching public records to find out if they are properly registered and insured.

So if I have the situation correct here:
You moved in and your not on the lease? Not sure how you move into a place under someone elses lease, most leases I have seen in Philadelphia have a clause that forbids sub-leasing. After you moved in your upset because the landlord is unresponsive, and you want to force him to what? Be more responsive? Pay the water bill? Get a landlord licence?

I mean, personally, I think the OP is just enjoying some kind of investigative power trip. The truth of the matter is that you don't like your landlord and the water thing is just an excuse for you to exact what you feel is some kind of revenge because of the landlords absenteeism.