Moving to the suburbs (communitable and good schools)

[3rd&Brown]

The main line which includes Media, in general, has higher property taxes than other areas. NJ has the highest in the country. But it really varies from community to community and when you're house shopping, the RE prop taxes will be listed. Any $600k house anywhere is going to have pretty high taxes. On the plus side, areas with lower taxes also typically have cheaper real estate. So you'll save in both places. NJ is excellent for commuting via PATCO and has some decent walkable towns like Collingswood (I'll reserve my personal opinions about NJ in general).

This entire statement is patently false.

The taxes are lower on the Main Line than they are virtually anywhere else. Although the total amount paid might be high, as a percentage of value, they're among the lowest.

Here's my take. You're working at Penn or in West Philly. Focus on towns with access to Regional Rail that stops at UC or the trolley which stops underground at various places on Penn's Campus.

The geography of Delco is confused by the fact that often times, different towns share zipcodes, which are often named differently than one or both (or more) towns (example, Wallingford = Nether Providence) they cover. Media is a great example. Media is a zipcode that covers a large swath, and is used by parts or all of Media Borough, Edgemont Township, Middletown Township, Upper Providence Township, Nether Providence Township, Marple Township, and if I'm not mistaken, even parts of Thornbury Township. The first four are in the Rose Tree Media School district, the next, Wallingford Swarthmore, the next, Marple Newtown, and the last, West Chester. Thus, tax rates vary drastically, from VERY low (Rose Tree Media) to very high (Wallingford Swarthmore).

I like all of the following areas:

Media Borough (Rose Tree Media SD, low low taxes)

The Bowling Green Section and the northern parts of Nether Providence Twp (Gorgeous, leafy, much of it walkable to Media Borough...but in the W-S School District, which is stellar but has high taxes). Moylan is an interesting little borough nestled on the west side of Nether Providence with a train station; also in the W-S School District.

The Merion Golf Manor, Manoa, and Penfield sections of Haverford Township. I'd call these areas Main Line lite. They have a range of housing styles, leafy streets, reasonable taxes...the US Open is being held at the Merion Golf Club this year, which is at the center of Merion Golf Manor. I like this area too because you have access to the Main Line without the attitude.

Wayne in Radnor Township. It's probably the only part of the Main Line I'd consider. Radnor Schools, which are probably tops on this list, followed by W-S, and a nice, walkable town center with Regional Rail access. At your price point, taxes would be reasonable.

If you opt for more of a country feel, I'd focus on Easttown, Willistown, and the northern reaches of Newtown Square. This area is collectively known as "Radnor Hunt Country"...where the gentry still ride horses and not all of the streets are paved (I kid you not). Of course, nothing is simple, and all 3 are in different school districts (Tredyffrin Easttown, Great Valley, and Marple Newtown). All are known for their low taxes, and there is a bit of a boomlet happening in the parts of Newtown Square surrounding Aronimink (the golf club) and the new campus of Episcopal Academy (tear downs being replaced by massive mansions). (TE is considered the best of the lot, followed by GV and then MN, though all are very good). I think it's among the most picturesque areas in the entire region, along with the Rt 52/100 corridor in Southern Chester County (Kennett Square and Chadds Ford, roughly).

[Garret]

Walkability in the suburbs? Good luck. The Main Line is probably your best bet. But even then, it's not great unless you live close to Lancaster Ave.

But if you're looking for isolated cul-de-sac living where your main contact with your neighbors his waving to them from you driveway then you'll have to look farther out and forget about walkability all together. (Also, if either of you run/cycle outdoors, this is a big consideration. The farther out you go, the newer the communities generally, which means less sidewalks and therefore safety from cars.)

There are loads of walkable suburbs around Philly. There are many suburban towns that have been self-contained communities for well over a hundred years. Much of the former farmland between all these towns has since been filled in with sprawl like you are describing, but the original towns remain largely intact. They have walkable housing clustered around main-street style business districts and Regional Rail stations. While you won't find anything as walkable as Center City, places like Jenkintown, Glenside, Ambler, Hatboro, Narberth, Collingswood, Haddonfield, Wayne, Media, Lansdale, North Wales, Doylestown, and many others can easily hold their own against Mt Airy, East Falls, or Manayunk.

Even Steve Spindler of bikemap.com commented that it is easier to live car-free in Jenkintown than in Center City.

The convenience and uniqueness of Jenkintown

Property taxes are all over the place. You have to look at taxes on individual houses on a case-by-case basis. For example, taxes are high in Jenkintown to support a small, compact, school district. They are much lower in Ambler because the borough shares Wissahickon school district with the bajillionaires in Whitpain and Lower Gwynedd townships. I have friends in Lr Merion paying low taxes on very nice houses because they are being subsidized by the captains of industry living in monstrous main line mansions, while other friends in Upper Merion are being subsidized by taxes generated by the King of Prussia Mall.

[PhilaCap]

There are loads of walkable suburbs around Philly.

Absolutely! It's ridiculousness to suggest otherwise.

[Sycamore]

Absolutely! It's ridiculousness to suggest otherwise.

Yep. My boyfriend lives in West Chester Borough and we walk everywhere except to work.

Media is super walkable, with a Trader Joe's, and the trolley brings you to the local grocery store, mall, and further on, 69th Street terminal. Media is a gem, in my opinion.

[Burholme06]

Even Steve Spindler of bikemap.com commented that it is easier to live car-free in Jenkintown than in Center City.

The convenience and uniqueness of Jenkintown

I stopped reading after the second sentence. After writing that he lived at 14th and Locust, I decided that he wasn't in a position to tell me anything about Center City.

[seand]

After writing that he lived at 14th and Locust, I decided that he wasn't in a position to tell me anything about Center City.

????

Edit: I get it. He didn't type Broad and Locust.

[Outlaw Star]

Yeah, that's a really stupid column. I like Jenkintown and all--more than most--but to argue that it's more convenient than Center City? Come on.

[billy ross]

Jenkintown, Ambler, West Chester, et al are quite pleasant. You're glossing over one huge flaw, though. They're really far from each other. In other words, Jenkintown is one mile square. Outside of that tiny geography you fall off the map. To use your other geography, it is a pleasant walk from Manayunk to East Falls or Roxborough. Put another way, I really like West Chester, but I hate what's around it. I'd go bonkers if I lived in West Chester. I can't live in a town of 10,000 where the nearest town is miles away. I get bored and I need to get out, and I can't just pound the same sidewalks. I also can't live in a town where the main drag has been turned into a four lane through way for the benefit of car-centric morons who don't even live in my town and who want nothing more than to speed through it for that measly mile (i.e. Jenkintown). NW Philadelphia represents an entity of 150k empowered people and two Councilmanic districts who want walkabity. You're outvoted in traffic-choked MontCo, where car traffic flow doesn't exist but is king nonetheless. Because of this You'll never turn Old York Road aka 611 through Jenkintown into a real Main Street like we have all over NW Philly.

There are loads of walkable suburbs around Philly. There are many suburban towns that have been self-contained communities for well over a hundred years. Much of the former farmland between all these towns has since been filled in with sprawl like you are describing, but the original towns remain largely intact. They have walkable housing clustered around main-street style business districts and Regional Rail stations. While you won't find anything as walkable as Center City, places like Jenkintown, Glenside, Ambler, Hatboro, Narberth, Collingswood, Haddonfield, Wayne, Media, Lansdale, North Wales, Doylestown, and many others can easily hold their own against Mt Airy, East Falls, and Manayunk.

Even Steve Spindler of bikemap.com commented that it is easier to live car-free in Jenkintown than in Center City.

The convenience and uniqueness of Jenkintown

Property taxes are all over the place. You have to look at taxes on individual houses on a case-by-case basis. For example, taxes are high in Jenkintown to support a small, compact, school district. They are much lower in Ambler because the borough shares Wissahickon school district with the bajillionaires in Whitpain and Lower Gwynedd townships. I have friends in Lr Merion paying low taxes on very nice houses because they are being subsidized by the captains of industry living in monstrous main line mansions, while other friends in Upper Merion are being subsidized by taxes generated by the King of Prussia Mall.

[Naveen]

There are loads of walkable suburbs around Philly. There are many suburban towns that have been self-contained communities for well over a hundred years. Much of the former farmland between all these towns has since been filled in with sprawl like you are describing, but the original towns remain largely intact. They have walkable housing clustered around main-street style business districts and Regional Rail stations. While you won't find anything as walkable as Center City, places like Jenkintown, Glenside, Ambler, Hatboro, Narberth, Collingswood, Haddonfield, Wayne, Media, Lansdale, North Wales, Doylestown, and many others can easily hold their own against Mt Airy, East Falls, or Manayunk.

Meh. I think you're overselling how walkable these places are. They were self-contained units once upon a time, when we weren't an auto-based society; no more. All of these main streets have decayed to different levels, and you still need a car to get to a wide variety of decent shopping. I couldn't imagine living in these places without a car unless I had a very limited scope of travelling needs. (And all of the people I know who live in these places couldn't live without them.)

Yep. My boyfriend lives in West Chester Borough and we walk everywhere except to work.

I was in West Chester just last night. Sure, cute little downtown with restaurants and bars (I spent a ton of time there in my 20s, and it's even better now), but you're still going to have to hop in our car or wait for an infrequent bus and go up to Exton for shopping. Can the kids walk or take a quick bus ride to school? Maybe, depending on where you live and which school they're going to.

Still, I do think all of these places are better than the sprawl around them.

It's sad that Americans largely abandoned these places in exchange for bland, characterless cul-de-sac living and car-rides to even more characterless strip malls. It would have been marvelous if the street grid of these towns had been expanded and strong inter-town transit systems had been developed.

[ArcticSplash]

Still sticking with Ardmore. Old, charming houses, thick vegetation, all of it is walk/bike able, train is right there at Suburban Square with short commute times if you use it and frequent service, a pretty nice shopping center connected to transit and for a time it had the only Apple Store in the region. If I ever moved to the burbs, this is where I'd go.

[NickleDimer]

it is a pleasant walk from Manayunk to East Falls

REALLY? What route do you take? Past the freeway ramps and along a beat up / vacant section of Ridge? Or along the desolate stretch of the SRT trail where Kelly Dr traffic is bombing past you at 50 mph?

[Naveen]

Still sticking with Ardmore. Old, charming houses, thick vegetation, all of it is walk/bike able, train is right there at Suburban Square with short commute times if you use it and frequent service, a pretty nice shopping center connected to transit and for a time it had the only Apple Store in the region. If I ever moved to the burbs, this is where I'd go.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned the Mainline in my original response. It's the closest to fully walkable, with easy access to the rest of the Mainline (such as Wayne), and of course quick and easy access to CC. I've thought the same in regards to ever having to relocate to the burbs.

REALLY? What route do you take? Past the freeway ramps and along a beat up / vacant section of Ridge? Or along the desolate stretch of the SRT trail where Kelly Dr traffic is bombing past you at 50 mph?

Agree on this too. You can walk over to Main Street...it's just not a fun walk.

[PhilaCap]

Ardmore's ok. Definitely very walkable. But pretty dumpy in some parts.

[billy ross]

REALLY? What route do you take? Past the freeway ramps and along a beat up / vacant section of Ridge? Or along the desolate stretch of the SRT trail where Kelly Dr traffic is bombing past you at 50 mph?

The last time I did that trip on foot I crossed Blackie Bridge, then I followed the west bank down to the Falls Bridge, where I crossed back over. It was an extremely interesting and enjoyable walk - tremendous potential there, potential which can be unlocked as Lower Merion wakes up to the 11 miles or so of Schuylkill River frontage in the township. On Friday immediately before we left for vacation I biked through the pines to Roxborough to go to Citizen's and to TD, then I biked down Righter Street and threaded my way to the Hundred Steps, which I followed to the Wissahickon to the SRT to the Falls Bridge again. Again it was a very interesting and highly enjoyable trip. What a great way to leave Philly as I headed to the Cape and Islands, which, while quite pleasant and extremely fancy, are behind Philly in many ways except money.

[NickleDimer]

So basically, you can walk on abandoned railroad tracks and tresspass... or you can walk along the SRT as 2-4 lanes of traffic drag race past you. Such a pleasant stroll!

[billy ross]

So basically, you can walk on abandoned railroad tracks and tresspass... or you can walk along the SRT as 2-4 lanes of traffic drag race past you. Such a pleasant stroll!

Some of us love industrial ruins and view the prospect of exploring them with relish. Keasbey and Mattison in Ambler, anyone?

[NickleDimer]

Some of us love industrial ruins and view the prospect of exploring them with relish. Keasbey and Mattison in Ambler, anyone?

And some of us enjoy getting punched in the face. What's your point? The overwhelming majority of non-hobo people do not enoy walking from place to place on railroad tracks.

[annie]

Ardmore's ok. Definitely very walkable. But pretty dumpy in some parts.

I was wondering if someone was going to mention "Hardmore." The first I'd heard of it was at a party where graduates from Ardmore (some of the least self-sufficient college graduates I've met) also taught me that "poor people take the bus" and "rich people take the train."