Renewbold project by LPMG/Interface

**Eastcoast** · 06-26-2012, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by phillyaggie

Not implying anything of that sort. But it is generally true that reduce, reuse, recycle is better than something brand new which is made in some "green" fashion. Another example is in energy: conserving a gallon of gas or a KW of electricity is environmentally better than producing more power from solar or more fuel from plants. None of it obviates the need for new supplies, of course. But conservation doesn't get as much rep as it probably should.

Materials that go into construction are some of the biggest air polluting industries known to man. So to the extent that materials already there could be repurposed/rehabbed with minimal additions, is good for the environment.

PA, you are choosing to live in a city, essentially a hive environment and utilizing public transit, I imagine also walking great deal. Perhaps you don't own a car...I think you can in good conscience pick whatever housing your heart desires without a second thought. Brand spanking new, remodeled or a falling down grandma house.

**raider.adam** · 06-26-2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by phillyaggie

Not implying anything of that sort. But it is generally true that reduce, reuse, recycle is better than something brand new which is made in some "green" fashion. Another example is in energy: conserving a gallon of gas or a KW of electricity is environmentally better than producing more power from solar or more fuel from plants. None of it obviates the need for new supplies, of course. But conservation doesn't get as much rep as it probably should.

Materials that go into construction are some of the biggest air polluting industries known to man. So to the extent that materials already there could be repurposed/rehabbed with minimal additions, is good for the environment.

But there was no feasible rehab option for the property. It's not like this was a new set of houses where a cornfield stood or they tore down a bunch of existing homes to build new ones. It replaced an abandoned and derelict school with new LEED platinum homes a couple blocks from a mass transit station.

**phillyaggie** · 06-26-2012, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

PA, you are choosing to live in a city, essentially a hive environment and utilizing public transit, I imagine also walking great deal. Perhaps you don't own a car...I think you can in good conscience pick whatever housing your heart desires without a second thought. Brand spanking new, remodeled or a falling down grandma house.

haha indeed all that's true. thanks. i'm mostly concerned about making a good decision for what's likely the biggest purchase of my life.

**phillyaggie** · 06-26-2012, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

But there was no feasible rehab option for the property. It's not like this was a new set of houses where a cornfield stood or they tore down a bunch of existing homes to build new ones. It replaced an abandoned and derelict school with new LEED platinum homes a couple blocks from a mass transit station.

oh, i'm sorry if you thought what I said was a in reference to this particular project. not saying anything about this project. FWIW, I think it's great that they're aiming for LEED Platinum-- I wish more would, especially in the city, taking advantage of the built environment that's already present.

**raider.adam** · 06-26-2012, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by phillyaggie

oh, i'm sorry if you thought what I said was a in reference to this particular project. not saying anything about this project. FWIW, I think it's great that they're aiming for LEED Platinum-- I wish more would, especially in the city, taking advantage of the built environment that's already present.

Gotcha. Yeah, I thought it was meant as a reason not to purchase those particular units. That's why I was getting confused.

I was wondering why someone would doubt their environmental cred by buying one of them.

**the mule** · 06-26-2012, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Gotcha. Yeah, I thought it was meant as a reason not to purchase those particular units. That's why I was getting confused.

I was wondering why someone would doubt their environmental cred by buying one of them.

Yeah the discussion got a little muddied with generalities of new construction vs. rehabs, but at the same time a person who ends up buying one of these houses gets to walk around wearing their shiny LEED halo while the person in the rehab across the street with far less embodied energy gets no such special distinction.

With the blank slate that's on this site now, the postgreen LEED platinum houses are clearly an improvement from an energy perspective over your generic new construction house, and that's the comparison that matters in this particular case.

Regarding there being no feasible rehab option on the property, there actually were a few interested parties proposing to convert the school to condos before LPMG was involved. There were also a few million in redevelopment funds set aside by the city to be used for the rehabilitation of the Drexel School. I think that was an option for LPMG even after they started pursuing the property, but of course the condo market tanked citywide, and an expensive, complicated condo conversion at 16th and Moore started to sound pretty ridiculous. So the only remotely feasible rehab option at the time required a portion of public funds and all the strings attached to that, a lender willing to fund the rest of the deal, and a market with buyers willing to buy condos there. It might have happened, but the time just wasn't right and apparently the city wasn't willing to tolerate the rotting hulk of a school building until it was right.

Ironically Renewbold is still comprised of condos, but you can build new construction townhouse condos in phases a lot more easily than you can with a conversion of a school building.

**raider.adam** · 06-27-2012, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by the mule

Yeah the discussion got a little muddied with generalities of new construction vs. rehabs, but at the same time a person who ends up buying one of these houses gets to walk around wearing their shiny LEED halo while the person in the rehab across the street with far less embodied energy gets no such special distinction.

With the blank slate that's on this site now, the postgreen LEED platinum houses are clearly an improvement from an energy perspective over your generic new construction house, and that's the comparison that matters in this particular case.

Regarding there being no feasible rehab option on the property, there actually were a few interested parties proposing to convert the school to condos before LPMG was involved. There were also a few million in redevelopment funds set aside by the city to be used for the rehabilitation of the Drexel School. I think that was an option for LPMG even after they started pursuing the property, but of course the condo market tanked citywide, and an expensive, complicated condo conversion at 16th and Moore started to sound pretty ridiculous. So the only remotely feasible rehab option at the time required a portion of public funds and all the strings attached to that, a lender willing to fund the rest of the deal, and a market with buyers willing to buy condos there. It might have happened, but the time just wasn't right and apparently the city wasn't willing to tolerate the rotting hulk of a school building until it was right.

Ironically Renewbold is still comprised of condos, but you can build new construction townhouse condos in phases a lot more easily than you can with a conversion of a school building.

Yeah a lot of people looked at converting the school, but the reason that a lot of people kept looking at it is because the numbers never worked out. From what I understand, one of the biggest financial killers was just the asbestos abatement.

**JerzBoy** · 06-27-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by the mule

Yeah the discussion got a little muddied with generalities of new construction vs. rehabs, but at the same time a person who ends up buying one of these houses gets to walk around wearing their shiny LEED halo while the person in the rehab across the street with far less embodied energy gets no such special distinction.

With the blank slate that's on this site now, the postgreen LEED platinum houses are clearly an improvement from an energy perspective over your generic new construction house, and that's the comparison that matters in this particular case.

Regarding there being no feasible rehab option on the property, there actually were a few interested parties proposing to convert the school to condos before LPMG was involved. There were also a few million in redevelopment funds set aside by the city to be used for the rehabilitation of the Drexel School. I think that was an option for LPMG even after they started pursuing the property, but of course the condo market tanked citywide, and an expensive, complicated condo conversion at 16th and Moore started to sound pretty ridiculous. So the only remotely feasible rehab option at the time required a portion of public funds and all the strings attached to that, a lender willing to fund the rest of the deal, and a market with buyers willing to buy condos there. It might have happened, but the time just wasn't right and apparently the city wasn't willing to tolerate the rotting hulk of a school building until it was right.

Ironically Renewbold is still comprised of condos, but you can build new construction townhouse condos in phases a lot more easily than you can with a conversion of a school building.

Just to clarify, these homes will NOT be condo ownership. Only the driveway in back of the homes will have shared ownership. HOA fees would just be for the maintenance of that and range from $100-200/YEAR.

**the mule** · 06-27-2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by JerzBoy

Just to clarify, these homes will NOT be condo ownership. Only the driveway in back of the homes will have shared ownership. HOA fees would just be for the maintenance of that and range from $100-200/YEAR.

Hrm good to know. I don't want to be spreading misinformation. The address system (1800 S. 16th A, B, C, etc.) is a little misleading then, and the MLS listing still says HOA to be determined, but the condo field says "no" so mea culpa. So are each of these properties going to have separate BRT numbers and taxes?

**the mule** · 06-27-2012, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Yeah a lot of people looked at converting the school, but the reason that a lot of people kept looking at it is because the numbers never worked out. From what I understand, one of the biggest financial killers was just the asbestos abatement.

Any environmental remediation wouldn't have helped the numbers, but it was likely one of many dealbreakers. The demo in general would have taken some careful staging. The middle of the building was collapsed and trees were growing out of the roof. It also had those towering chimneys all along the exterior walls that would have to be braced. Then there was the basic configuration of the building. It was a school building with wide hallways and stairwells, not very conducive to fitting in usable apartments.

The other complication was its historic status. Sure maybe it could have gotten some historic tax credits to offset increased costs of preservation, but it was another complication to the project, especially for developers inexperienced with historical rehab. It was a lot easier to just let the city tear it down and have a blank slate to work with, build the houses in phases, and limit the developer's financial exposure.

A repurposed Drexel School could have been pretty damn cool to have in the neighborhood, but as someone who walks by there regularly, I'm much more appreciative of how open and sunny that half a block is now without that hulk blotting out the sun. These houses, though they'll be unlike anything around them, will at least be much more to scale with the surrounding blocks.

**Malloy** · 06-27-2012, 08:46 PM

I love loft conversions, but that school really was a bit of a hulk. It looks much better over there now. Well, it will when these are built - big dirt lots are pretty hideous.

**raider.adam** · 06-28-2012, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by the mule

Any environmental remediation wouldn't have helped the numbers, but it was likely one of many dealbreakers. The demo in general would have taken some careful staging. The middle of the building was collapsed and trees were growing out of the roof. It also had those towering chimneys all along the exterior walls that would have to be braced. Then there was the basic configuration of the building. It was a school building with wide hallways and stairwells, not very conducive to fitting in usable apartments.

The other complication was its historic status. Sure maybe it could have gotten some historic tax credits to offset increased costs of preservation, but it was another complication to the project, especially for developers inexperienced with historical rehab. It was a lot easier to just let the city tear it down and have a blank slate to work with, build the houses in phases, and limit the developer's financial exposure.

A repurposed Drexel School could have been pretty damn cool to have in the neighborhood, but as someone who walks by there regularly, I'm much more appreciative of how open and sunny that half a block is now without that hulk blotting out the sun. These houses, though they'll be unlike anything around them, will at least be much more to scale with the surrounding blocks.

I didn't realize the school was historic and would have had to meet preservation rules.

**JerzBoy** · 07-01-2012, 10:08 AM

I think the price is reasonable given all the features of the homes. Sure it would be the highest priced home in the immediate area but there are really no other new construction homes in lower Newbold, let alone ones that are LEED Platinum with parking which is a HUGE benefit in South Philly. Plus you know that Postgreen builds quality homes and doesn't put up sh!tty construction like many of the other builders do who are looking to make a quick buck.

I also personally think that this area of Newbold is superior to Northern Newbold/Point Breeze. You have quality amenities such as the SPTR, Brew, Circles, and a subway stop within 2 blocks of the project. It is also a very easy walk to E. Passyunk Ave with all its bars/restaurants/shops. Plus, you can walk to the area just south of Snyder where there are very good Italian Delis/Bakeries/Pizzerias, etc.

Whereas in Northern Newbold/PB, it is fairly isolated. There are some real bad areas just south/west of there with no amenities to speak of. To the north, G-Ho has some amenities but the neighborhood is really in its infancy....

**shannons** · 09-25-2012, 10:42 PM

I heard this project is having hard time get off the ground...any truth?

**sharkey** · 09-26-2012, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by shannons

I heard this project is having hard time get off the ground...any truth?

Uh, I'd say so-----there is nothing more than a dirt lot there.

**the mule** · 09-26-2012, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by shannons

I heard this project is having hard time get off the ground...any truth?

As of their last blog post they were still trying to negotiate the demo and tax liens on the property:

reNewbold Project Update

There's still 132k in taxes owed and I'm sure the demo lien is significant as well.

City of Philadelphia | Revenue Department

**JerzBoy** · 02-19-2013, 03:06 PM

It looks like this project might finally break ground any day now.

Ambitious reNewBold project clears hurdles, finally ready for construction

**carloss** · 02-19-2013, 03:21 PM

Whoooa, and I was this close to declaring it dead in the water. This plus Carpenter Square, plus Southstar Lofts...construction in this city is really picking up.

Originally Posted by JerzBoy

It looks like this project might finally break ground any day now.

Ambitious reNewBold project clears hurdles, finally ready for construction

**Newbolder** · 02-19-2013, 03:25 PM

ReNewbold finally about to get moving | Passyunk Post

I also read this last week. We are so happy to see this area change for the better. West Passyunk's blown up!

The Navy Yard is going to be a large impact on South Philly. 30,000 new jobs and $5 gas prices should make people think about how far you should work from where you live.

**OldMama** · 02-19-2013, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Newbolder

ReNewbold finally about to get moving | Passyunk Post

I also read this last week. We are so happy to see this area change for the better. West Passyunk's blown up!

The Navy Yard is going to be a large impact on South Philly. 30,000 new jobs and $5 gas prices should make people think about how far you should work from where you live.

I'm older than you. That's what people used to say about $3.00/gallon gas. My colleagues in Philly still moved to Bucks.

Personally, though, I've never commuted a long distance and I never will.