What Texans really hate about PA

[phillyaggie]

Figured I would be the most qualified person this forum to post this.


What Texans really hate about PA (and it's not gas taxes) | PhillyDeals | 03/15/2011

Smith knows Texas, and he knows corporate real estate. Does Corbett's promise have him he prospecting for Houston and Dallas companies to move North? Are they ringing his phone?

Not so far. "We could find room for them. But they're not dying to come back," said Smith, smiling in his Market Street office, between maps of colonial Philadelphia and Texas topography.

Smith doesn't believe Pennsylvania's 0% gas-extraction fee, compared to Texas' 4% levy, is a convincing draw. The way Smith sees it, "companies want the gas, and they'll pay the tax."

But Pennsylvania may be passing up a good thing that could benefit all industries. Texas' energy taxes raise so many billions that the state manages without an income tax.

If Corbett really wants to make Pennsylvania like Texas, why doesn't he try that?

And who says extraction taxes are the main factor Texas energy bosses consider before selling their ranches and moving their Stetsons (an old Philly brand) up North?

When companies want to move to Houston, Smith says, a single regional agency handles real estate, leasing, licensing and tax questions. The weather may be steamy-Philly-August for most of the year, the chain shops and restaurants have that drive-by Interstate-bypass lack of character - but for business it's one-shop stopping, enabling a tenant to quickly check costs and opportunities at multiple sites and make a solid decision.

By contrast, potential clients from simpler jurisdictions freeze in disbelief, Smith says, when he explains about the Philadelphia region's hundreds of boroughs, cities and townships, each with its planning and zoning rules [i should mention within the city, you have to deal with local unelected community leaders who are mostly NIMBYs]; plus the competing county and state agencies, multiple property-tax districts, high business income tax rates and complex discounts, and other complications. Compared to Texas, tenants feel "we are over-governed," Smith says.

Like so many other examples, the issue often seems to come down to this: PA (and Philly) make matters worse for business by wrapping things in antiquated laws and red tape.

[phillyaggie]

As a way of example, today's Inky also has a story about Penn's billionaire graduates. About two dozen Penn grads are billionaires now. None of them stuck around in Philly to mint their billions, grow their businesses, and employ thousands.

Penn’s new billionaires: FarmVille creator, Groupon backer | Philadelphia Inquirer | 03/15/2011

[five apples]

As a way of example, today's Inky also has a story about Penn's billionaire graduates. About two dozen Penn grads are billionaires now. None of them stuck around in Philly to mint their billions, grow their businesses, and employ thousands.

Penn’s new billionaires: FarmVille creator, Groupon backer | Philadelphia Inquirer | 03/15/2011

Urban Outfitters is most certainly a philadelphia company.

[phillyaggie]

Urban Outfitters is most certainly a philadelphia company.

Hayne is in the article for a different reason:

Also on the list were a handful of billionaires listed as residing in the Philadelphia area (but didn't go to Penn)

[billy ross]

Figured I would be the most qualified person this forum to post this.


What Texans really hate about PA (and it's not gas taxes) | PhillyDeals | 03/15/2011



Like so many other examples, the issue often seems to come down to this: PA (and Philly) make matters worse for business by wrapping things in antiquated laws and red tape.

For some odd reason you always feel a need to see things in the worst light. Why didn't you include the overall gist of the article? I quote the end of the article:

"Yet Smith is a Philly believer. Smith steers decision-makers to the region's s lifestyle attractions: its standout private golf courses, its first-rate suburban and private schools, its vast medical establishment, its arts culture and cuisines. His firm's local properties include the Wanamaker Building (where tenants include David Kramer's fast-growing Digitas-Razorfish advertising group), 1818 Market St., and 1101 DeKalb Pike in King of Prussia,

"There's a national misperception about Philadelphia. My friends from home are always impressed," Smith told me. Getting that story out, and doing more to simplify the government nuisance factor, could do more to boost Pennsylvania business than special treatment and wishful thinking for the gas industry."

I agree with Joe DiStefano here, although I think he's often off-base.



Read more: What Texans really hate about PA (and it's not gas taxes) | PhillyDeals | 03/15/2011
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[TEX]

No state taxes in TX. Yes, Wharton grads go elsewhere! TX could give 2 s**ts about PA!

[phillyaggie]

what you quoted is pretty much the same thing that I have... especially the part about the government nuisance factor.

you would have us believe that great amenities in and of themselves are enough to attract businesses and jobs (and your quote is mostly about amenities OUTSIDE the city, such as private golf courses and first-rate suburban schools), when there is plethora of evidence that suggests otherwise. The city is ass-backwards when it comes to business-friendliness. And the state isn't much better either as is seen through this article, so Philly has that double-whammy of a bad local government and a bad state government. Those previliged to be insiders can tough it out and find loopholes...that's why developers from outside mostly shun this place, and so do businesses.

[eldondre]

using the shale tax to lower across the board taxes like the cni is a good idea. a way to use a windfall to improve the house IMO

[billy ross]

what you quoted is pretty much the same thing that I have... especially the part about the government nuisance factor.

you would have us believe that great amenities in and of themselves are enough to attract businesses and jobs (and your quote is mostly about amenities OUTSIDE the city, such as private golf courses and first-rate suburban schools), when there is plethora of evidence that suggests otherwise. The city is ass-backwards when it comes to business-friendliness. And the state isn't much better either as is seen through this article, so Philly has that double-whammy of a bad local government and a bad state government. Those previliged to be insiders can tough it out and find loopholes...that's why developers from outside mostly shun this place, and so do businesses.

Incorrect. Maybe you don't know this city all that well yet. The Philadelphia Cricket Club in Chestnut Hill is the only country club in the world which has golf courses from each of the past three centuries. I'm not a golfer, but Philly Cricket is fancy-dancy. The initiation fees are eyeball-popping. They have a great swim team, too, as I can ruefully attest to. The article clearly states 'first-rate suburban and private schools.' Clearly the suburban schools are in the suburbs, but the best private schools are better than the best suburban (public) schools. If you want the best you'd might as well go for the best. I attended one of those private schools. My brother attended (sort of) another. My kids attend a third. They are all in the city. This is not to say that there aren't excellent private schools in Philly's burbs. My daughter's rivals in squash go to Perelman, Shipley, and Baldwin, all in Lower Merion, as well as Greenwich Academy and Greenwich Country Day (?), both in Greenwich, CT. However, the best school in the Interac League, the fancy schools league in the Philly area, is in the city. The best school in the Catholic League too is in the city. The best school in the Friends' (Quaker) League is, you guessed it, in the city.

[billy ross]

using the shale tax to lower across the board taxes like the cni is a good idea. a way to use a windfall to improve the house IMO

I'm totally on board with this. Corbett wants to be like Texas? Well, here's a great start.

[phillyaggie]

Incorrect. Maybe you don't know this city all that well yet. The Philadelphia Cricket Club in Chestnut Hill is the only country club in the world which has golf courses from each of the past three centuries. I'm not a golfer, but Philly Cricket is fancy-dancy. The initiation fees are eyeball-popping. They have a great swim team, too, as I can ruefully attest to. The article clearly states 'first-rate suburban and private schools.' Clearly the suburban schools are in the suburbs, but the best private schools are better than the best suburban (public) schools. If you want the best you'd might as well go for the best. I attended one of those private schools. My brother attended (sort of) another. My kids attend a third. They are all in the city. This is not to say that there aren't excellent private schools in Philly's burbs. My daughter's rivals in squash go to Perelman, Shipley, and Baldwin, all in Lower Merion, as well as Greenwich Academy and Greenwich Country Day (?), both in Greenwich, CT. However, the best school in the Interac League, the fancy schools league in the Philly area, is in the city. The best school in the Catholic League too is in the city. The best school in the Friends' (Quaker) League is, you guessed it, in the city.

something tells me you're missing (or refusing to see) the forest for the trees.

[billy ross]

something tells me you're missing (or refusing to see) the forest for the trees.

No. It is you who does so. Check out the headline of that article in today's paper. You insist on seeing the negative. The article as printed in the paper isn't really negative at all, on balance.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...l_giants_.html

PhillyDeals: Are Pa. laws really scaring off oil giants?

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...#ixzz1GlbGh7qk
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Isn't that dramatically different from your headline of "What Texans really hate about PA"?

The article sagely points out (in indirect fashion) that charging out of town firms the same taxes as in town firms doesn't encourage firms to set up shop in town. If you want firms to locate here, you need to make it tax-advantageous to set up shop here. The windfall money from energy extraction should allow that, and Corbett needs to be 'educated'. The state legislature and others will do that. I am hoping that he isn't so stubborn as to not see the light and acknowledge the truth. If PA can lower its corporate taxes - get rid of the capital stock tax, among others - it will become a much wealthier state. It has the money to do that now. It's just sitting there waiting to be grabbed.

[ArcticSplash]

bross can't see the forest for the trees, and p-aggie's the inverse.

Look at San Francisco, which is an economic bounty. High taxes, very high real estate valuations, a byzantine local array of special purpose agencies also exists, which is somewhat in the middle between Texas's lack of red tape and PA's high amount of it, but operating costs and salaries are very high in the Bay Area.

Does that hamper growth in the Bay Area? No. It has the "it" factor and is the 2nd financial capital in the US after NYC.

SF is also a corporate incubator with lots of VC companies in the Bay Area. SF feeds off the megagrowth down in the valley and across the bay, and the East Bay and the valley depends on resources that SF and Oakland has... namely the major transportation assets like the two airports, transit and the high wealth concentration in SF which feeds the regional economy.


Trying to copy the existence in Texas is not really going to get Southerners to pull anchor and move to Philadelphia. I think we need to look for more esoteric growth rather than keep looking at the sunbelt.




One thing that I thought of is the problems in Japan. Lots of hard working people in Japan have just been made homeless. What if we relaxed our visa laws and enticed many refugees to settle over here, particularly in Philly? There's one solution to our vacant property problem in Philly... they're hard working and prosperous from where they came, and they might root here, set up a life of their own and reinvigorate our economy. Maybe not now, but over time they would inject new money into our tax base and build capital here, not to mention those who have assets in Japan that they would liquidate and move over here. Those immigrants would help displace some of our generational poor. I think we would become a better city for it.


That to me would be a lot better than trying to woo recalcitrant Southerners who would only move if it meant slashing incomes of workers and escaping from property taxes to do it.

[MariusPontmercy]

One thing that I thought of is the problems in Japan. Lots of hard working people in Japan have just been made homeless. What if we relaxed our visa laws and enticed many refugees to settle over here, particularly in Philly? There's one solution to our vacant property problem in Philly... they're hard working and prosperous from where they came, and they might root here, set up a life of their own and reinvigorate our economy. Maybe not now, but over time they would inject new money into our tax base and build capital here, not to mention those who have assets in Japan that they would liquidate and move over here. Those immigrants would help displace some of our generational poor. I think we would become a better city for it.


That to me would be a lot better than trying to woo recalcitrant Southerners who would only move if it meant slashing incomes of workers and escaping from property taxes to do it.

I actually had the exact same thought one the subway ride home.

It's happened before, although those disasters were usually man-made.

[phillyaggie]

bross can't see the forest for the trees, and p-aggie's the inverse.

That to me would be a lot better than trying to woo recalcitrant Southerners who would only move if it meant slashing incomes of workers and escaping from property taxes to do it.

That's reading the article too literally. The point wasn't, IMO, to bring back companies already moved away. But rather, make life simple and easy so that any company would want to be here.

What I took the most out of that article, and feel should be the underlined, highlighted, bolded, take-away for PA and Philly leadership, is this:

the state and the city need to eschew red tape, make tax policy transparent, and simply get the hell out of the way wherever possible. Set clear rules and regulate those.

By contrast, potential clients from simpler jurisdictions freeze in disbelief, Smith says, when he explains about the Philadelphia region's hundreds of boroughs, cities and townships, each with its planning and zoning rules; plus the competing county and state agencies, multiple property-tax districts, high business income tax rates and complex discounts, and other complications. Compared to Texas, tenants feel "we are over-governed," Smith says.

No amount of window-dressing or amenities will help when you get down to business.

[Braveheart]

It's great to see BillyRoss finally come around and tout the Philly "land of the low tax" Suburbs schools
and open space living.
Aye, Texas the land of the girly-man Cowboys.

[3rd&Brown]

Corbett is an ass. Plain and simple.

He would be able to slash all sorts of taxes if he had the balls to tax the natural gas industry. Instead, he just gives it away, and touts all of the waitressing and truck driving jobs he's created in bumble **** PA, while the loot goes home to Texas.

Yeah. Sounds awesome to me.

[billy ross]

Corbett is an ass. Plain and simple.

He would be able to slash all sorts of taxes if he had the balls to tax the natural gas industry. Instead, he just gives it away, and touts all of the waitressing and truck driving jobs he's created in bumble **** PA, while the loot goes home to Texas.

Yeah. Sounds awesome to me.

If you think that Corbett is out of touch, check out what the guy in Florida is doing:

Florida's budget: Austerity parade | The Economist

That guy is certifiable.

The beautiful thing about the American system of government is that the legislature gets to have their say, and they are hearing alot from the Penn State crowd and the like about this budget. Quite simply, they just won't pass it, and I'm talking about the Republicans. My guess is that the university cutbacks get rolled back via a natural gas tax, and that Corbett uses some of the proceeds to get rid of the Capital Stock tax, as well as to reduce PA's corporate taxes. To tax out-of-state operators while lowering taxes on in-state companies just strikes me as elegant, espetically when the vast majority of the electorate and the legislature is in favor of it.

Nothing spells red tape more than the Capital Stock and Franchise tax, and it is extremely anti-business and wasteful.