SDP Collapsing Faster than Expected

**raider.adam** · 09-21-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by annie

Is it that they don't allow their students to struggle or they don't allow struggling students to remain enrolled? I don't know.

Are test scores linekd to the student? Can they see how the kid tested before they got in the charter?

**billy ross** · 09-21-2012, 02:55 PM

If kids can't keep up can they be counselled out of a school? That happens at my kids' school all of the time. I'm going to guess that the answer is yes for a magnet school, and no for a neighborhood or a charter school. It seems to me that if kids are holding back the progress of a classroom, they should be with other kids who need extra support, where hopefully they can make progress rather than hold everyone else up while not getting the support that they really need anyway.

**annie** · 09-21-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by billy ross

If kids can't keep up can they be counselled out of a school? That happens at my kids' school all of the time. I'm going to guess that the answer is yes for a magnet school, and no for a neighborhood or a charter school.

Your kids' school is a private school and the schools I'm mentioning aren't magnet schools.

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Are test scores linekd to the student? Can they see how the kid tested before they got in the charter?

The Lab/Ad Prima/Planet Abacus had students take standardized tests prior to enrolling. In the district, "predicative" PSSA tests are done earlier in the year, more than once I think (something stupid started under Ackerman). I don't know if all charters do the same but those three schools definitely do.

ETA: There are plenty of district schools whose results I am upset about and will go into when I have time.

**seand** · 09-21-2012, 03:25 PM

Not defending Lab/Ad Prima/Abacus, nor testing as a condition of enrolling but not all predictative testing is all bad. I can see predictive testing at the beginning of the year and seeing "Wow we really need to work on these kind of word problems, spend more time on fractions". Some testing can be really useful for setting priorities on the areas a class needs the most work on. That isn't necessarily "reducing education to test prep" but using it to figure where students need the most work to actually master the skills they will need to go on to the next thing. Its a hard line to draw.

**OldMama** · 09-21-2012, 06:32 PM

When I worked in public school, many of the lowest scoring students had IEPs. These kids might be, say, 5th graders reading on a 3rd grade level but they must take the 5th grade test. You cannot imagine how heartbreaking it is having to give a 5th grade reading test to a child who is slow. Those were some of the worst days of my teaching career.

So, if you manage to avoid having special ed students through whatever means you employ, you'll probably get fewer kids scoring below basic. Public schools cannot avoid special ed kids. BTW, even magnets are supposed to serve children with special needs. At Central and Masterman, these needs usually are a physical disability, a hearing loss, or a speech disability although I know that Masterman has served high-functioning autistic children as well. Saul High School takes a significant number of special needs kids, even though they do select their students as well. remember that if you judge Saul by their scores.

**annie** · 09-21-2012, 06:40 PM

Philadelphia - The hard data: Scores down at every level | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

I made a Google spreadsheet of the Philadelphia scores.

Pa. test scores drop; state officials blame past cheating | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

Investigations have been closed in six others, including Chester Community Charter School, but the department will “continue to monitor” the involved schools.
Chester Community’s proficiency rates plummeted about 30 points in both reading and math, and the declines were fairly uniform across all grade levels and demographic subgroups.
The school, with more than 2,500 students on two campuses, is the state’s largest brick-and-mortar charter and is operated for-profit by Gov. Corbett’s single largest campaign contributor, Vahan Gureghian. Its CEO sent a letter to parents blaming the sharp drops on severe state funding cutbacks that caused “sharp declines in services.”

Uhhhhhh...

**annie** · 09-22-2012, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Philly Parent and Teacher

This is from emetrics: This only applies to charters -
"District measures are assessed in three grade spans: Grades 3–5, 6–8, and 9–12. To meet AYP goals and targets in Academic Performance or Test Participation, the district needs to achieve all measures for both subjects in one grade span only. Currently, test results from Grades 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 11 will determine AYP results.
This year, charter schools are assessed in three grade spans: Grades 3-5, 6-8, and 9-12."
Math, Civics and Science Charter -
Pennsylvania Dept of Education - Academic Achievement Report
The do not have one grade "span" where both reading and math targets were met. Yet, they are listed as "Made AYP." Why?
Most charters did not make AYP K-8, they made one grade "span." Look at Universal Institute Charter - bombed 3 -5th grade and barely made 6 - 8. The same is true at Christopher Columbus Charter - bombed 3 - 5 but passed on 6 - 8. Now, if they were a School District of Philadelphia school, they would not have made AYP.
Here are charters which would NOT have made AYP without this "exception" that is NOT given to SDP schools: Pennsylvania Dept of Education - Academic Achievement Report
Belmont Charter, Alliance for Progress, Antonia Pantoja community CS, Discovery Charter School, Eugenio Maria de Hostos Charter, First Charter School for Literacy, Global Leadership Academy Charter, Hardy Williams CS (run by Mastery), Khepera Charter, KIPP Philadelphia, KIPP West Philadelphia, Mariana Barcetti Charter, MAST Community Charter, Mastery Shoemaker, Math, Civics and Science Charter, Northwood Academy Charter, Pan American Academy Charter, People for People Charter, Phila. Academy Charter School, Richard Allen Prep Charter, Russell Byers Charter, Truebright Charter, West Oak Lane Charter, Wissahickon Charter, Young Scholars Frederick Douglass

Oh hell.

**annie** · 09-29-2012, 09:09 AM

CAO Penny Nixon to take yearlong leave Nov. 1 | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

Chief Academic Officer Penny Nixon will be taking a one-year sabbatical from the School District starting Nov. 1. Nixon had been the second-ranking District official and top instructional leader until the recent appointment of Paul Kihn as deputy superintendent.
Nixon, a product of the school system who rose through the ranks, had played a pivotal role in the District restructuring that got underway after the departure of former Superintendent Arlene Ackerman a year ago. But Nixon's name had also been tied to the District's ongoing cheating scandal. Wagner Middle School, where she was principal in 2009, was flagged for irregular test results for 7th and 8th graders that year in a forensic analysis by the state.

**billy ross** · 09-29-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by annie

CAO Penny Nixon to take yearlong leave Nov. 1 | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

What's the real scoop here? Who takes an unscheduled sabbatical starting November 1? Why can't they just be honest with us? I'm looking for transparency and 'truthiness'. I don't think I'm getting it.

**OldMama** · 09-29-2012, 01:58 PM

Sabbaticals usually begin on September 1 or February 1 except for restoration of health sabbaticals which can begin at any time. Of course, Penny Nixon is not working in a school. Perhaps she agreed to this later starting date so that she was available during the opening month of school, given that the CEO is new. Just a thought.

**JackStraw** · 09-30-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by billy ross

What's the real scoop here? Who takes an unscheduled sabbatical starting November 1? Why can't they just be honest with us? I'm looking for transparency and 'truthiness'. I don't think I'm getting it.

The results of the cheating investigation are to be released in Nov. Nixon's the one.

**JackStraw** · 09-30-2012, 12:43 PM

CAO Penny Nixon to take year leave Nov. 1 | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

**JackStraw** · 09-30-2012, 01:09 PM

How are you suppose to delete a post? The Edit Post button says "Edit/Delete", but there is no Delete button when you hit it.

**annie** · 10-06-2012, 10:20 AM

Corbett's education chief changes PSSA testing rules for charter schools without federal approval - mcall.com

Gov. Tom Corbett's education chief changed the PSSA testing rules in a way that makes it easier for charter schools to meet federal benchmarks than traditional public schools.

Education Secretary Ron Tomalis' change, made without federal approval, might have skewed the results of the 2011-12 PSSA scores to make it appear charter schools were outperforming traditional public schools, according to a Morning Call review of publicly available test score data.

The U.S. Department of Education has final authority over any changes in how states grade public schools, school districts and any other "local education agency" under the No Child Left Behind Act.

I'm glad there's some investigation into this because it's honestly really confusing (and so on purpose, I think). Basically a K-12 district school had to improve its PSSAs to the progress threshold at grades 3-8 and 11 in order to make AYP. A K-12 charter school only needed to meet the progress threshold in a single grade span (3-5, 6-8 or 11) in order to make AYP.

**annie** · 10-16-2012, 01:25 PM

U.S. says Pa. was not authorized to change charter progress rules

Under the new rules, charters did about as well statewide this year as public schools, and much better than regular schools in several urban districts.

About 49 percent of charters statewide made Adequate Yearly Progress in 2012, compared with 51 percent of all Pennsylvania schools.

In Philadelphia, about 54 percent of charters made the grade, compared with only 13 percent of public schools.

The school boards association said that if the old rules had been used, dozens fewer charter schools would have made AYP and charters would have performed much worse on average statewide than regular public schools.

Under the old rules, the association estimated, statewide, only 33 of 156 charters with PSSA scores - 21 percent - would have gotten the "Made AYP" designation, instead of 49 percent. In Philadelphia, association figures showed, 20 percent of charters would have made AYP, instead of 54 percent.

**raider.adam** · 10-16-2012, 01:33 PM

Instead of averaging the scores of all tested students to make AYP, under the new rules charters could average the test scores of only a few grades to meet state benchmarks, the way it is done for entire school districts.

I'm missing what the outrage is over. As explained in the article, it seems to make sense.

**seand** · 10-16-2012, 01:47 PM

Publics have to make AYP guidelines in each of their testing ages. Charters only have to make them in one testing range. Probably to make it easier for those "charter by decree" schools to make AYP, not so much those no-good cherry-picking "charters-by-choice".

**annie** · 10-16-2012, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

I'm missing what the outrage is over. As explained in the article, it seems to make sense.

If you're trying to compare a district K-8 and a charter K-8, it isn't helpful for making AYP to mean such different things. What parent is going to go into the weeds of data enough to realize a charter only made AYP because of the special requirements? I've heard this justified for cyber charters because they're mostly K-12s and have high student turnover both of which make it hard to make AYP but this doesn't seem like the solution. And why roll it out before you even have federal approval to do so?

**seand** · 10-16-2012, 01:56 PM

If the cyber schools require a different measuring stick because of their unique structure it makes no sense to not measure a brick and mortar k-8 by the same criteria as another brick and mortar K-8.

**raider.adam** · 10-16-2012, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by seand

Publics have to make AYP guidelines in each of their testing ages. Charters only have to make them in one testing range. Probably to make it easier for those "charter by decree" schools to make AYP, not so much those no-good cherry-picking "charters-by-choice".

Originally Posted by annie

If you're trying to compare a district K-8 and a charter K-8, it isn't helpful for making AYP to mean such different things. What parent is going to go into the weeds of data enough to realize a charter only made AYP because of the special requirements? I've heard this justified for cyber charters because they're mostly K-12s and have high student turnover both of which make it hard to make AYP but this doesn't seem like the solution. And why roll it out before you even have federal approval to do so?

Originally Posted by seand

If the cyber schools require a different measuring stick because of their unique structure it makes no sense to not measure a brick and mortar k-8 by the same criteria as another brick and mortar K-8.

I'm not following what you are both saying. According to the article, it sounds like the rule change is making the charters based on the same criteria as public schools. It sounds like they were stricter beforehand. Again, I could be missing something or the article isn't explaining it well.