Can Students Today Write?

**drewrob23** · 03-23-2011, 09:31 AM

I was talking to my girl last night and somehow we started talking about public school education. So during our convo she mentioned that her students don't know how to write(she's not a teacher, she's like a behaviorial specialist or something). I found this hard to believe because writing is as basic as adding in subtracting. I really hope that this isn't true because our children already seem to be lacking a lot of skills that are essential for them to be competitive when they get older. Even if a child didn't learn how to write, while in school, I would assume that a parent overlooking homework would notice that their child prints and doesn't write.

Has anyone noticed something like this?

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-23-2011, 09:35 AM

Honestly...judging by the grammar and spelling of the posts here, good writing is a lost art.

The effects of instant messaging and text messages has contributed heavily to the downward spiral.

**macdaire** · 03-23-2011, 09:37 AM

Your poor sentence structure makes it difficult to understand what you are saying. Are you talking about being able to write in cursive?

**Dayman** · 03-23-2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by macdaire

Your poor sentence structure makes it difficult to understand what you are saying. Are you talking about being able to write in cursive?

This, because I don't care about cursive when 70% of the students that come to me for tutoring can't write a coherent essay.

**Eastcoast** · 03-23-2011, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by macdaire

Your poor sentence structure makes it difficult to understand what you are saying. Are you talking about being able to write in cursive?

I think that's what drewrob is on about, cursive vs printing. Anyway, even though we learned cursive we still had to use a printing style for our essays and longer reports and papers, I suppose our cursive would have eventually made the teachers eyes bleed.

Drewrob you might want to invest a minute or two and find out what your "girl" does for a living, including her actual title, the skirts like that kind of attention.

**Dayman** · 03-23-2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Drewrob you might want to invest a minute or two and find out what your "girl" does for a living, including her actual title, the skirts like that kind of attention.

LOL! Hilarious.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-23-2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Drewrob you might want to invest a minute or two and find out what your "girl" does for a living, including her actual title, the skirts like that kind of attention.

Imagine that!

**Dolemite** · 03-23-2011, 10:05 AM

Basically they don't teach cursive any longer but typing instead. I suppose schools should just have a class on swyping.

Also my wife says her students(college) don't know how to write either.

**drewrob23** · 03-23-2011, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by macdaire

Your poor sentence structure makes it difficult to understand what you are saying. Are you talking about being able to write in cursive?

I'm sorry that my poor sentence structure makes it hard for you to understand what I wrote. Anytime someone tells me to write something, I automatically "write" in cursive. If I'm instructed to print, I think it's pretty straight forward.

EastCoast wrote:

Drewrob you might want to invest a minute or two and find out what your "girl" does for a living, including her actual title, the skirts like that kind of attention.

She's a behavorial health worker.

**drewrob23** · 03-23-2011, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dolemite

Basically they don't teach cursive any longer but typing instead. I suppose schools should just have a class on swyping.

Also my wife says her students(college) don't know how to write either.

That's interesting. I just had to do some essay's for a mid-term and I had to write everything. Then again, my printing is horrible, since I'm so out of practice.

**Outlaw Star** · 03-23-2011, 10:10 AM

If this is about cursive, who gives a @$#%$^? How will cursive writing make children any more or less competitive? I'm 28 and haven't written in cursive since grade school, and it hasn't hurt me one bit.

Besides, given technological advances, handwriting itself is becoming largely irrelevant.

**drewrob23** · 03-23-2011, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Outlaw Star

If this is about cursive, who gives a @$#%$^? How will cursive writing make children any more or less competitive? I'm 28 and haven't written in cursive since grade school, and it hasn't hurt me one bit.

Besides, given technological advances, handwriting itself is becoming largely irrelevant.

Some would probably say the same thing about learning Latin and French and being able to write a letter. Students also have those high-powered calculators, so I guess there's no need to learn to add and subtract, since a simple machine can do it for you. Computers are giving children way too many short cuts.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 03-23-2011, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by drewrob23

Some would probably say the same thing about learning Latin and French and being able to write a letter. Students also have those high-powered calculators, so I guess there's no need to learn to add and subtract, since a simple machine can do it for you. Computers are giving children way too many short cuts.

As with many things, one needs to understand the concepts behind the functions in order to have the "Machine" do it *correctly* for you.

One can punch in what ever they like, but without the basic understanding, it's nothing more than Garbage in, Garbage out.

**Dayman** · 03-23-2011, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by drewrob23

Some would probably say the same thing about learning Latin and French and being able to write a letter. Students also have those high-powered calculators, so I guess there's no need to learn to add and subtract, since a simple machine can do it for you. Computers are giving children way too many short cuts.

Nonsense. If you don't understand the concepts of basic arithmetic a calculator is a useless tool. It's like if I gave you a nautical slide rule and a norfolk plotter and told you to lay out a course. Yes it makes it easy but if you don't have the basic knowledge it's pointless.

Calculators are also absolutely essential when doing trigonometry or logarithms/exponents or any other more advanced maths. Or when doing lots of calculations with small or large numbers.

Also, as I said before, I don't give a sh!t about handwriting. I hate it when students bring me handwritten papers to look over. Type them out so I can read it. More than half of these so-called high school graduates don't know how to write a five paragraph essay. They don't know what plagiarism is. They've never cited a source. They don't understand basic parts of speech like subjects or verbs or clauses. They use semicolons in place of commas and have no idea what a quotation mark is. They have no idea what a metaphor or figurative language is. Basic, simple, eight grade stuff and you whine about cursive. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

**MetalDeth81** · 03-23-2011, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Dayman

Also, as I said before, I don't give a sh!t about handwriting. I hate it when students bring me handwritten papers to look over. Type them out so I can read it. More than half of these so-called high school graduates don't know how to write a five paragraph essay. They don't know what plagiarism is. They've never cited a source. They don't understand basic parts of speech like subjects or verbs or clauses. They use semicolons in place of commas and have no idea what a quotation mark is. They have no idea what a metaphor or figurative language is. Basic, simple, eight grade stuff and you whine about cursive. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

Agreed. My girlfriend, a 10th grade English teacher, is currently grading 5 paragraph essays and is also having a $hit-fit about the things you just mentioned (works cited, plagiarism, basic sentence structure). She specifically told her classes to either type or print, because the students' handwriting is so bad.

**drewrob23** · 03-23-2011, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

As with many things, one needs to understand the concepts behind the functions in order to have the "Machine" do it *correctly* for you.

One can punch in what ever they like, but without the basic understanding, it's nothing more than Garbage in, Garbage out.

My point is that technology is great, but it's no substitue for good ole fashion learning.

Dayman wrote:

Also, as I said before, I don't give a sh!t about handwriting. I hate it when students bring me handwritten papers to look over. Type them out so I can read it. More than half of these so-called high school graduates don't know how to write a five paragraph essay. They don't know what plagiarism is. They've never cited a source. They don't understand basic parts of speech like subjects or verbs or clauses. They use semicolons in place of commas and have no idea what a quotation mark is. They have no idea what a metaphor or figurative language is. Basic, simple, eight grade stuff and you whine about cursive. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

Don't get mad at me, because the students that you tutor, weren't taught properly. I'm not whining about anything. I just asked a question. If you really feel so raw about it, become a teacher and teach these children what they need to know, so that some 20+ man doesn't whine about the people who's he's supposed to be helping. Obviously there are a lot of problems when it comes to what children in the public school system are learning and I think it's a bit unfair to criticize young adults, trying to continue their education, because they weren't taught all the things that you take for granted. Judging from some of your posts on the board, it seems as like you attend CCP, so I'm also going to assume that your tutor there also. I just don't understand someone getting angry at someone else, because they weren't taught something and now it's an inconvience to you, because your stuck tutoring them.

**Dayman** · 03-23-2011, 11:00 AM

Don't get mad at me, because the students that you tutor, weren't taught properly. I'm not whining about anything. I just asked a question. If you really feel so raw about it, become a teacher and teach these children what they need to know, so that some 20+ man doesn't whine about the people who's he's supposed to be helping. Obviously there are a lot of problems when it comes to what children in the public school system are learning and I think it's a bit unfair to criticize young adults, trying to continue their education, because they weren't taught all the things that you take for granted. Judging from some of your posts on the board, it seems as like you attend CCP, so I'm also going to assume that your tutor there also. I just don't understand someone getting angry at someone else, because they weren't taught something and now it's an inconvience to you, because your stuck tutoring them.

I'm not angry at you. I'm not angry at the majority of the students either, many of them just weren't taught because the schools they attended were utter crap. But some of them - not most, are bad, and they don't care, and they just want you to write their papers for them. I love my job, and it's worthwhile and what little help I can provide I am more than happy to give.

I am going to complain, because my job is to help write essays not provide remedial grammar when these students have already passed remedial grammar and writing courses and they still haven't been taught to any level of competence. When you are deemed ready to take English 101 you should be able to write a complete sentence. I've talked this over with faculty and they agree with me. There is a cancer in this city and it's the public school system.

Originally Posted by MetalDeth81

Agreed. My girlfriend, a 10th grade English teacher, is currently grading 5 paragraph essays and is also having a $hit-fit about the things you just mentioned (works cited, plagiarism, basic sentence structure). She specifically told her classes to either type or print, because the students' handwriting is so bad.

It's frustrating because now everything is held up because the lower levels aren't doing their job.

**drewrob23** · 03-23-2011, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Dayman

I'm not angry at you. I'm not angry at the majority of the students either, many of them just weren't taught because the schools they attended were utter crap. But some of them - not most, are bad, and they don't care, and they just want you to write their papers for them. I love my job, and it's worthwhile and what little help I can provide I am more than happy to give.

I am going to complain, because my job is to help write essays not provide remedial grammar when these students have already passed remedial grammar and writing courses and they still haven't been taught to any level of competence. When you are deemed ready to take English 101 you should be able to write a complete sentence. I've talked this over with faculty and they agree with me. There is a cancer in this city and it's the public school system.

It's frustrating because now everything is held up because the lower levels aren't doing their job.

If they've already passed remedial grammar and English 101, then doesn't that mean that some professors at CCP are just passing these people and not ensuring that they actually understand the material? And if that's the case, then any student who's found to have the problems that you described, should have their English professor brought before the department head and explain why the student passed.

**Outlaw Star** · 03-23-2011, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by drewrob23

My point is that technology is great, but it's no substitue for good ole fashion learning.

There's good 'ole fashioned learning, and then there's learning that's just plain not needed anymore. Cursive is one of those things. It's not widely taught or valued, not insisted upon, and not used. Period. Need to do something official, for work or otherwise? It needs to be filled out online or typed. On the occasions when you do need to fill out hardcopy forms, all of them ask that you print. What's the value in cursive?

More importantly, as Dayman so eloquently put it, the delivery mechanism isn't the issue. Teaching children to write pretty letters is not the same as teaching them to write. It's like complaining about the paint job on a house that's collapsing. Maybe if we can get them to understand basic composition theory and clarity of thought and expression first, then we can worry about handwriting. But even then, I just don't see a place for it anymore.

**Sailaway** · 03-23-2011, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Outlaw Star

There's good 'ole fashioned learning, and then there's learning that's just plain not needed anymore. Cursive is one of those things. It's not widely taught or valued, not insisted upon, and not used. Period. Need to do something official, for work or otherwise? It needs to be filled out online or typed. On the occasions when you do need to fill out hardcopy forms, all of them ask that you print. What's the value in cursive?

Maybe someone with a strong legal background can provide some input, but handwriting has some legal weight as a form of self-identification and validation. It's not easy for an average person to forge another's signature and differences in writing - even supposedly "good" forgeries - are visible even to my untrained eye.