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  1. #1
    gren's Avatar
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    Default District Reveals Budget Shortfall

    District finally reveals size of budget gap | Philadelphia Public School Notebook
    Phila. schools face painful cuts

    [Updated, 10:10 pm] Superintendent Arlene Ackerman today acknowledged the size of the District's budget gap for next year to be "$400 to $500 million or more" - an amount that likely represents about 15 percent of total District spending.
    The District's response to its financial woes was described as a process involving three phases, starting with immediate spending reductions and furlough days for top staff. Much deeper cuts in "phase two" for next school year, when the District faces a loss of federal stimulus funds, would include the following, according to Nunery:

    more furlough days,
    potential layoffs of one-fourth of all central office staff,
    cuts in school budgets, and
    increases in class size.

    If caps on charter enrollment are lifted or a voucher bill is passed by the state legislature, Nunery acknowledged that the District will be forced to move into a "phase three" that "will disrupt our core programs and initiatives."
    A note will be going out tomorrow to staff.

    I also think this map is interesting, shows where the money is. Lower Merion spends almost twice as much per student. I imagine its cuts will be far less damaging. (Old data, I know).
    Last edited by gren; 02-11-2011 at 12:21 AM.

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    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gren View Post
    District finally reveals size of budget gap | Philadelphia Public School Notebook
    Phila. schools face painful cuts





    A note will be going out tomorrow to staff.

    I also think this map is interesting, shows where the money is. Lower Merion spends almost twice as much per student. I imagine its cuts will be far less damaging. (Old data, I know).
    The District will do little to no hiring for next school year.

    With over 260 schools and a need to close a 15+% gap, one would think that it would be a question of closing about 50 or so shools. When your customers are defecting in droves, you've got to reduce your capacity and your costs.

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    OldMama is online now Senior Member
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    Would be nice if they could use the empty space to reduce class size. It's currently 30 in K through 3 and 33 above that. Too big.

  4. #4
    L3N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    The District will do little to no hiring for next school year.
    Worse than that.... Kristen Graham Education beat writer for the Inquirer just tweeted "layoff notices likely for teachers with three years seniority or less, plus other school staffers and central office folks. brutal."

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    raider.adam is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    The District will do little to no hiring for next school year.

    With over 260 schools and a need to close a 15+% gap, one would think that it would be a question of closing about 50 or so shools. When your customers are defecting in droves, you've got to reduce your capacity and your costs.
    I agree. They need to right size.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldMama View Post
    Would be nice if they could use the empty space to reduce class size. It's currently 30 in K through 3 and 33 above that. Too big.
    Except you need more teachers to shrink class sizes as well.

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    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    I agree. They need to right size.



    Except you need more teachers to shrink class sizes as well.
    Good teachers are more important than class size, especially since the problems in Philly SD are so fundemental.

    What they should be doing is firing the higher paid, lazy, old, poorly performing teachers and hiring talented young people. Given unemployment issues this shouldn't be that hard. The teacher's union of course won't allow this to happen, and will perpetuate the "teachers are underpaid" myth, which serves to attract mediocrity.

    The employment system discourages smart young people from going into teaching. They fear for their jobs while some old bag coasts along. Someone explain to me how the tenure system is good for the schools and the students. Why does it even exist? These teachers are not writing dissertations or publishing research papers.
    Last edited by BarryG; 02-11-2011 at 09:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldMama View Post
    Would be nice if they could use the empty space to reduce class size. It's currently 30 in K through 3 and 33 above that. Too big.
    I grew up in a middle class suburban school district back in the 60s through early 70s. Class size was always about 30. No one ever seemed to think that was a problem back then.
    “Guys like you I would dispatch with my roofing axe.” -- BootsywannabeACretin

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    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
    I grew up in a middle class suburban school district back in the 60s through early 70s. Class size was always about 30. No one ever seemed to think that was a problem back then.
    Class size is not directly correlated with student achievement. It's a myth that is perpetuated to hire lots of medicore teachers instead of fewer good ones, so there are more people paying union dues, to fill politicans' pockets.

  9. #9
    macdaire is offline Senior Member
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    Just curious- have either of you taught a class of 30 5 year olds? or even been in one and observed/volunteered?

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    OldMama is online now Senior Member
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    Agreed, Macdaire. The class size at Masterman is large-33- but it's less of an issue when kids are motivated, have fewer behavior issues, and good academic skills. It's a serious issue in poorer neighborhoods where kids need more attention than a large class size affords them. It's a serious issue in regular schools when those 30-33 kids likely include any number with an IEP who require specially designed instruction. And, Jayfar, in the 60's those kids never got to regular classes in public schools and didn't exist in parochial schools. It's a different world.

    I'd love to see bright new teachers join the ranks but I have little faith in getting them there. The hiring process is ridiculous and have you read about Dr. Ackerman's skewering of a young TFA worker at a recent meeting? Let me assure you that many of my son's cohorts at Penn's GSE are quite wary of working under this woman. Now, of course, it doesn't matter because the district isn't hiring anyway. My son is devastated because he really wanted to teach in Philly.

    And PLEASE keep in mind that not EVERY older teacher is lazy and incompetent and all new blood isn't a breath of fresh air. I retired in '09. My position is now on the third new blood replacement. At the principal's request, I've gone in on my own time to help each of them but, as my dad always said "you can't shine sh**." I haven't seen a true work ethic in any of them and the job is just too difficult so they quit. Clearly, they needed more mentoring than the little I could afford to give them- this doesn't exist.

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    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldMama View Post
    Agreed, Macdaire. The class size at Masterman is large-33- but it's less of an issue when kids are motivated, have fewer behavior issues, and good academic skills. It's a serious issue in poorer neighborhoods where kids need more attention than a large class size affords them. It's a serious issue in regular schools when those 30-33 kids likely include any number with an IEP who require specially designed instruction. And, Jayfar, in the 60's those kids never got to regular classes in public schools and didn't exist in parochial schools. It's a different world.

    I'd love to see bright new teachers join the ranks but I have little faith in getting them there. The hiring process is ridiculous and have you read about Dr. Ackerman's skewering of a young TFA worker at a recent meeting? Let me assure you that many of my son's cohorts at Penn's GSE are quite wary of working under this woman. Now, of course, it doesn't matter because the district isn't hiring anyway. My son is devastated because he really wanted to teach in Philly.

    And PLEASE keep in mind that not EVERY older teacher is lazy and incompetent and all new blood isn't a breath of fresh air. I retired in '09. My position is now on the third new blood replacement. At the principal's request, I've gone in on my own time to help each of them but, as my dad always said "you can't shine sh**." I haven't seen a true work ethic in any of them and the job is just too difficult so they quit. Clearly, they needed more mentoring than the little I could afford to give them- this doesn't exist.
    I'm aware that there are many good older teachers. But a lot of money could be saved if poorly performing ones were the ones fired, rather than doing based on seniority.

    Maybe in elementary school classes should be smaller. We could save a lot of money and improve performance at the secondary level by increasing class size and laying off poorly performing teachers.

    Schools need to be closed and consolidated as well. There are many unfilled seats.

    We need to attract better teachers, that is the bottom line. The latest PISA report makes it very clear. Salaries in most of the US and even Phila, when factoring in benefits, time off, and pensions, are good enough to attract top talent, particularly in the recession (though union seems to want to promote the idea that they are underpaid). Seniority rules and lack of performance pay keep out some of the brightest. But you are right, Phila SD has so much else going against it, with safety issues, relative salaries compared to the region, poor facilities and reputation, and apprently the administration itself. Can you send link about Ackerman and the TFA?

  12. #12
    macdaire is offline Senior Member
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    TFA teacher gets angry response from Ackerman | Philadelphia Public School Notebook


    I think we need to be cautious in thinking that all young teachers are passionate and committed. I have seen a mixed bunch. I have high regard for TFA teachers but have seen many of them fail/break down under the pressures of urban teaching, especially without good mentors. To balance this, I have seen older tenured teachers that need to be gone but cannot be gotten rid (quickly)of due to union protection.

    I also do not believe that district salaries are comparable to suburban ones. The actual process of hiring is laborious and ridiculous. I have also had experiences where possible new hires have called on the way to the interview and cancelled when they see the neighborhood the school is in. Many would prefer a higher salary outside of Philadelphia and also realise their experiences will be more positive. The district has schools that do not provide paper for these teachers to print on, students do not have toilet rolls to wipe themselves, classrooms that are prefab walled hot zones with mice etc. etc. It is tough to teach when it is so cold in the "room" that you need a jacket or so hot your kids are falling asleep.
    In addition, Old Mama is correct. Novice teachers in a room full of 30-33 students with different needs is a major challenge, that is rarely addressed appropriately.
    I really believe that, before holding stong opinions, one should volunteer or visit some of our city schools and see what teachers are experiencing for their salary. Unfortunately, The passion can dry up really fast....

  13. #13
    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by macdaire View Post
    TFA teacher gets angry response from Ackerman | Philadelphia Public School Notebook


    I think we need to be cautious in thinking that all young teachers are passionate and committed. I have seen a mixed bunch. I have high regard for TFA teachers but have seen many of them fail/break down under the pressures of urban teaching, especially without good mentors. To balance this, I have seen older tenured teachers that need to be gone but cannot be gotten rid (quickly)of due to union protection.

    I also do not believe that district salaries are comparable to suburban ones. The actual process of hiring is laborious and ridiculous. I have also had experiences where possible new hires have called on the way to the interview and cancelled when they see the neighborhood the school is in. Many would prefer a higher salary outside of Philadelphia and also realise their experiences will be more positive. The district has schools that do not provide paper for these teachers to print on, students do not have toilet rolls to wipe themselves, classrooms that are prefab walled hot zones with mice etc. etc. It is tough to teach when it is so cold in the "room" that you need a jacket or so hot your kids are falling asleep.
    In addition, Old Mama is correct. Novice teachers in a room full of 30-33 students with different needs is a major challenge, that is rarely addressed appropriately.
    I really believe that, before holding stong opinions, one should volunteer or visit some of our city schools and see what teachers are experiencing for their salary. Unfortunately, The passion can dry up really fast....
    Do teachers applying for jobs at charters need to go through the same process?

  14. #14
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    I agree. They need to right size.



    Except you need more teachers to shrink class sizes as well.
    With 70,000 empty seats they can reduce the number of schools and reduce costs (e.g. maintenance, management) without increasing class size. The district is top-heavy, and having too many schools which are half full exacerbates that. The tooth to tail ratio is too low, in other words. Don't cut the teeth. Cut the tail.

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    macdaire is offline Senior Member
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    Charter school teachers do not have to go throught he school distrcit process of hiring

  16. #16
    gren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    With 70,000 empty seats they can reduce the number of schools and reduce costs (e.g. maintenance, management) without increasing class size. The district is top-heavy, and having too many schools which are half full exacerbates that. The tooth to tail ratio is too low, in other words. Don't cut the teeth. Cut the tail.
    The whole seniority thing is pretty annoying. I understand why young teachers who've gone to good colleges, take teaching seriously, and are quickly becoming good teachers quit to go to higher paying private sector jobs or move to higher paying more stable school districts. In fact, I think I know one who might be doing that.

  17. #17
    jen's Avatar
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    i wonder how many millions were wasted by no-bid contracts.
    maybe ackerman could sell her big 'ol fur coat to help raise some money for the district.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryG View Post
    Class size is not directly correlated with student achievement. It's a myth that is perpetuated to hire lots of medicore teachers instead of fewer good ones, so there are more people paying union dues, to fill politicans' pockets.
    I was not aware of this myth. Perhaps you could cite some sources.

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    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by five apples View Post
    I was not aware of this myth. Perhaps you could cite some sources.
    The PISA 2009 report supports this conclusion. You can wade through that ( PISA 2009 Results ) or here are some summaries:

    Education: Korea and Finland top OECD
    The PISA Rankings and the Role of Schools in Student Performance on Standardized Tests
    BID-Iniciativa Educación: Teacher Quality in PISA 2009

    It's not that class size has no bearing, but is much less significant than quality of teaching.

    BTW PISA also shows that there is no link between spending per pupil and performance. Much like healthcare, the US spends the most but has poor results.
    Overhauling schools: How to get good grades | The Economist

    Edited to add:
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/08/...teachers-more/

    BTW I am in support of paying teachers more (however, US is inline with other highly performing countries, and pays more than others with higher starting cash salaries when you include benefits and pensions--particularly because healthcare costs are so high here) *if* the pay is linked to performance and not seniority or pieces of paper.
    Last edited by BarryG; 02-11-2011 at 02:55 PM.

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    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by five apples View Post
    I was not aware of this myth. Perhaps you could cite some sources.
    Additionally, please see #3, #8 and #13 on this list:
    Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2010 | OpenSecrets

    Given the political clout of the teachers, in my opinion as a taxpayer it is very wise to question their motives.

    Edited to add:
    At the state level:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/index_stfed.php

 

 

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