Education and the Single Teenage Mom

[raider.adam]

A tangent from another thread. This is one reason why I don't go all anti-teacher (but that doesn't make me pro-system, either). This is something I have been saying is one of the biggest issues we have to deal with and unfortunately I don't know if anyone has a solution.

Welcome to our urban high schools, where kids have kids and learning dies.

"Nobody Gets Married Any More, Mister" by Gerry Garibaldi - City Journal

[phillysw]

I get the point of the article and your argument (which I agree with) that no amount of money will ever help some kids learn until basic social problems are fixed. But it's not about unwed mothers--it's about children having children. These girls don't even have the option of getting married at 14, 15, 16. And married or not, they will still have little education, few skills, and often little support at home.

And what have politicians done about teen pregnancy and marriage in the last 15 years? Pour federal dollars into abstinence-only education, which has been proven to fail time and time again, and attempt to ban same-sex couples from getting married.

[JBL]

And what have politicians done about teen pregnancy and marriage in the last 15 years? Pour federal dollars into abstinence-only education, which has been proven to fail time and time again, and attempt to ban same-sex couples from getting married.

I've heard this argument before, but don't see it in action or even hear about it beyond the talking heads of the media. I went to a knuckle-slapping, nun-taught, church 2x a week Catholic school, and we were taught about condoms, birth control and AIDS in 8th grade...20 years ago. We even got the banana demonstration.

[raider.adam]

I get the point of the article and your argument (which I agree with) that no amount of money will ever help some kids learn until basic social problems are fixed. But it's not about unwed mothers--it's about children having children. These girls don't even have the option of getting married at 14, 15, 16. And married or not, they will still have little education, few skills, and often little support at home.

And what have politicians done about teen pregnancy and marriage in the last 15 years? Pour federal dollars into abstinence-only education, which has been proven to fail time and time again, and attempt to ban same-sex couples from getting married.

You missed a significant gist of the article. I am sure a lot of the moms (and dads) are aware of condoms and the consequences of sex. It isn't that they are failing at trying to remain child-free, it is that many of them don't find it a problem to get pregnant at that age.

I highly doubt the teenage pregnancy rate in Philly is attributed to an ignorance of condoms.

[uly55es1]

A tangent from another thread. This is one reason why I don't go all anti-teacher (but that doesn't make me pro-system, either). This is something I have been saying is one of the biggest issues we have to deal with and unfortunately I don't know if anyone has a solution.

"Nobody Gets Married Any More, Mister" by Gerry Garibaldi - City Journal

Thanks for posting this. I do not have a subscription to the City Journal so could not access this online.

[Sharkfood]

In Mexico, they use incentive welfare payments to break the generational cycle of poverty/social dysfunction.

Parent gets a bonus check for meeting certain goals: class attendance for kids; health check ups for kids; no teen pregnancy.

The idea is the parent is beyond help, but it may be possible to break the cycle in the next generation

[jazzcat]

Thanks for posting this. I do not have a subscription to the City Journal so could not access this online.

I just read it without a subscription...

It was very telling...very sad...very true.
Thanks Adam.

[OldMama]

This article tells it like it is. The image of the nuclear two-parent family is utterly foreign to so many of our students. When my husband died, my older students from single mother families were very casual about it which surprised me because we had a good relationship. They didn't seem to grasp the magnitude of the loss but their questions made me realize why. I kept getting the following questions: Was he your kids' father? and Are they sad? Never having had a real relationship with their own fathers they couldn't grasp how my kids were feeling. The kids from two parent families did not show this detachment. Very sad state of affairs.

[uly55es1]

You missed a significant gist of the article. I am sure a lot of the moms (and dads) are aware of condoms and the consequences of sex. It isn't that they are failing at trying to remain child-free, it is that many of them don't find it a problem to get pregnant at that age.

I highly doubt the teenage pregnancy rate in Philly is attributed to an ignorance of condoms.

Pretty much true. Look I have this situation in my own family. The attitudes of the kids in the article is dead on. My neice who is age 17 now. Preggers at 14, miscarried a month later. Ask her why you get the blank look on her face and a shrug. At 17 she has all of the answers and grownups don't know Jack. However everything that comes out of her girlfriends mouths is Gospel.

She was a OOW birth to two drug addled parents who could care less. The rest of the family stepped up the the plate and took her in at age four. Middle class, marriage oriented working folks. Plenty of examples and role models and not one OOW birth among her Aunts and Uncles. Sent her through the Catholic School system until her behavior got so bad they put her out. A move to a suburban school did not help either, neither did counseling and the like. At 17 she really does not know what she wants but she knows what she doesn't want. Rules and restrictions IE school and towing the line at home. so this is all going to turn out badly. You know what? I am not losing any sleep over it. Some kids have to learn their lessons at the School of Hard Knocks.

Public policy cannot really solve the problem of unwed teens. It starts in the home, in the communities these kids live in and with the kids themselves. The schools have them only so many hours in a day. Even so sometime no matter what you do things come to a bad end. I doubt if it would matter if every program for OOW teens were eliminated. A certain proportion will still get pregnant, always have but most will not. Personal responsibility is at the heart of this but it is not PC to say that.

[uly55es1]

I've heard this argument before, but don't see it in action or even hear about it beyond the talking heads of the media. I went to a knuckle-slapping, nun-taught, church 2x a week Catholic school, and we were taught about condoms, birth control and AIDS in 8th grade...20 years ago. We even got the banana demonstration.

We must have gone the the same school. There are seven of us siblings. You know why none of us dared to come home with a OOW pregnancy? Shame and being ostracized within our family. Not just Mom and Dad but the extended family. The expectations were high. Too many kids, and yeah I'm going to go there, too many in the Black community have lost that.

[phillyaggie]

In Mexico, they use incentive welfare payments to break the generational cycle of poverty/social dysfunction.

Parent gets a bonus check for meeting certain goals: class attendance for kids; health check ups for kids; no teen pregnancy.

The idea is the parent is beyond help, but it may be possible to break the cycle in the next generation

yeah, many poorer countries incentivize good behavior. I believe Brazil started it and with their program meeting a lot of success (for example, they pay parents to send their kids to school where the kids also get free mid-day meal; skip school and parents get no money...money isn't enough to make you rich, but it is enough to allow the kids to go to school instead of being farm help or construction help, etc.), it has been copied by others. India now runs the biggest free mid-day meal program for kids who attend school-- this not only helps malnourishment issue but also education issue. It works.

Of course, try even thinking of using such government incentives in the U.S. and you're promptly attacked as being a commie or socialist or what have you.

[Hospitalitygirl]

We must have gone the the same school. There are seven of us siblings. You know why none of us dared to come home with a OOW pregnancy? Shame and being ostracized within our family. Not just Mom and Dad but the extended family. The expectations were high. Too many kids, and yeah I'm going to go there, too many in the Black community have lost that.

Shame is the missing element everywhere. For so many things.

[ACG]

Shame is the missing element everywhere. For so many things.

Thank you reality TV. You don't need any special skill to be famous anymore, just no shame.

[Hospitalitygirl]

Thank you reality TV. You don't need any special skill to be famous anymore, just no shame.

Reality TV; Sally Jesse Raphael, Phil, et al...just "let it all hang out". Grr...tuck it back in dammit.

[Sharkfood]

yeah, many poorer countries incentivize good behavior. I believe Brazil started it and with their program meeting a lot of success (for example, they pay parents to send their kids to school where the kids also get free mid-day meal; skip school and parents get no money...money isn't enough to make you rich, but it is enough to allow the kids to go to school instead of being farm help or construction help, etc.), it has been copied by others. India now runs the biggest free mid-day meal program for kids who attend school-- this not only helps malnourishment issue but also education issue. It works.

Of course, try even thinking of using such government incentives in the U.S. and you're promptly attacked as being a commie or socialist or what have you.

I think Mayor Bloomberg wanted to try it in NY

[phillyaggie]

Reality TV; Sally Jesse Raphael, Phil, et al...just "let it all hang out". Grr...tuck it back in dammit.

Whenever it is Judge Judy retires, may be you should take her spot in the daytime tv lineup: Judge HG. Tough love!

[raider.adam]

yeah, many poorer countries incentivize good behavior. I believe Brazil started it and with their program meeting a lot of success (for example, they pay parents to send their kids to school where the kids also get free mid-day meal; skip school and parents get no money...money isn't enough to make you rich, but it is enough to allow the kids to go to school instead of being farm help or construction help, etc.), it has been copied by others. India now runs the biggest free mid-day meal program for kids who attend school-- this not only helps malnourishment issue but also education issue. It works.

Of course, try even thinking of using such government incentives in the U.S. and you're promptly attacked as being a commie or socialist or what have you.

The arguments against aren't "commie/socialist". It is hard for a lot of people to believe to get behind the idea that you should pay parents to be parents. For it to gain traction, it would have to be part of a bigger welfare reform package, most likely.

I think Mayor Bloomberg wanted to try it in NY

He did. I never heard anything about its results.

Opportunity NYC

[enyo]

Do they check school records of people applying for welfare? IE behavior, lack of caring versus not too sharp? They should just eliminate welfare for people that don't meet certain basic goals. Attitude should be the first criteria they are based on. Don't Give a Fuk? Go Fuk yourself cause we don't either.

Its one thing if your down and out, but I am sick of the lack of shame that seemingly 10 percent of the population has. It gets really old watching people old enough to know better butting in line, taking their sweet time crossing the road when they have a red light, throwing trash all over the place, Honking horns at someone trying to make a turn.

Hell we should just sterilize the people that have any respect for others, because we are going to continue picking up their tab and their offspring's tab.

[wislad]

I don't disagree with what's being said here--except that having no shame and the lack of civility are not the same thing.

[wislad]

At 17 she has all of the answers and grownups don't know Jack. However everything that comes out of her girlfriends mouths is Gospel.

My kids are grown but I still have a magnet on my rerfrigerator that says, "Quick, ask your teenagers now while they still know everything!"