Large Ugly Building planned on 205 Race (2nd and Race)

[OldCity]

Apparently there is a really ugly and massive building coming up at 2nd and Race at the empty lot there.

It will block the view of the bridge, block the city view from the bridge and will look nothing close to historical. The developers are Brown Hill development and they own the lot. They don't seem to care much about Old City and have not adapted the style to fit.

Here is a video I found of the presentation to City Hall about the building:

http://www.viddler.com/embed/d0a4d770

If anyone knows more, please post. The developers have applied for variances to get by the zoning and preservation alliance.

Looks like it will be a ugly sore in the heart of Old City.

[mixiboi]

Uhh..this has been dead for years now.....Unless something changed..which if it did, I think we would heard something...

The history since 2006:

Skyline Online: Design Changes Planned for 205 Race Street As Condo Market Softens

2011

Three development proposals run into controversy at Planning Commission meeting | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

[OffenseTaken]

Apparently there is a really ugly and massive building coming up at 2nd and Race at the empty lot there.

It will block the view of the bridge, block the city view from the bridge and will look nothing close to historical. The developers are Brown Hill development and they own the lot. They don't seem to care much about Old City and have not adapted the style to fit.

Here is a video I found of the presentation to City Hall about the building:

http://www.viddler.com/embed/d0a4d770

If anyone knows more, please post. The developers have applied for variances to get by the zoning and preservation alliance.

Looks like it will be a ugly sore in the heart of Old City.

There are several threads on this project already, some of them years old, and they make it pretty clear that it's gone the way of the American Commerce Center and the wooly mammoth. So cheer up.

You know, you people in that neighborhood are weird. If you want to keep up the charade you're in Disney's Ye Olde Colonial Towne, you should be more worried about the massive parking lots and the douche clubs blaring DJ Tiesto like it's 1998. They do a lot more to kill your vapid "neighborhood feel" than some real ****ing architecture would.

[thoth]

Yeah how about the collection of buildings on 2nd st and the 200 block of Chestnut Street that are mysteriously vacant and falling apart. Or the hideous Fort Knox chain link fence for the Chemical Heritage Center's worthless parking lot. Can't you guys focus your Super Sayen powers on that instead of people who are trying to build, er, something on a ****ty rubble lot.

[CountFunkula]

I can't wait for the candle-making exhibit and ye old Black Smith shoppe opening soon.

Some in Old City prefer empty lots and vacancy to population density and foot traffic. I don't happen to be one of them.

[bluecuracao]

You know, you people in that neighborhood are weird. If you want to keep up the charade you're in Disney's Ye Olde Colonial Towne, you should be more worried about the massive parking lots and the douche clubs blaring DJ Tiesto like it's 1998. They do a lot more to kill your vapid "neighborhood feel" than some real ****ing architecture would.

Why do "you people" outside the neighborhood always like to group everyone in Old City into a one-mindset mass? It's real ****ing annoying.

[OffenseTaken]

Why do "you people" outside the neighborhood always like to group everyone in Old City into a one-mindset mass? It's real ****ing annoying.

"You people in that neighborhood" when directed at OP just means "the handful of people who ruin things for everyone else." Not the entire population of OC, of course.

[elfreth]

It is no longer dead. No idea if this is the same as proposed before or not.

OCCA meeting on 8-28 to discuss the zoning change request for this building:

SIXTEEN (16) STORY STRUCTURE WITH CELLAR
(STRUCTURE HEIGHT: 197’-6”) FOR USE AS 128 DWELLING UNITS IN THE SECOND THROUGH SIXTEENTH FLOORS;
THIRTY-FOUR (34) INTERIOR OFF-STREET PARKING SPACES INCLUDING TWO (2) ACCESSSIBLE SPACES, BIKE PARKING AND UTILITIES IN THE CELLAR LEVEL;
OPEN-AIR ROOF GARDEN ABOVE THE FOUR (4) STORY PORTION;
FITNESS CENTER AND COMMUNITY ROOM IN THE FIFTH FLOOR (SOLELY FOR USE BY OCCUPANTS OF DWELLING UNITS);
COMMERCIAL SPACE AT THE GROUND FLOOR
AND PROVIDING ONE (1) OFF-STREET LOADING SPACE AT THE FLORIST STREET FRONTAGE (16’-0” X 40’-0”). SIZE AND LOCATION AS SHOWN IN THE APPLICATION / PLAN.

[Cro Burnham]

dear thread-starter: how do you know it's ugly? is it as ugly as the vacant land that's there now?

and how would this proposed building negatively affect your life? do you have a vacant lot fetish? or are you a mugger who prefers empty unsafe streets in which to ply your trade? are you afraid of not having guaranteed parking in your walkable urban neighborhood? are you afraid of additional traffic in your walkable urban neighborhood? are you opposed to urban density in your urban neighborhood? do you believe that city residents are entitled to live free of shadows as do their suburban counterparts? and are you afraid of the shadows that such a building would cast to its north (but not south) upon the unfortunate occupants of an eight-lane elevated roadway? are you afraid of further gentrification in a neighborhood whose gentrification in which you too once participated?

are you afraid of . . . . *change* (a cursed word that may only be whispered in a wide-eyed, hushed tone) in any form?

perhaps you should not park, drive, eat, drink, shop, live, or otherwise assert you existence in old city so that even purer gentrifiers who came before you could enjoy the experience of no change that seems so desirable to OCCA. The truth is, only the descendants of the original inhabitants of elfreth's alley should be able to enjoy life in old city, and only elfreth's alley should be inhabited. any other newcomers represent the dreaded foe change whose eradication has been OCCA's singular focus since it was founded by . . . . gentrifiers.

advice: move to the surburbs where you can be assured of a shadowless existence in which to enjoy a cornucopia of wide empty streets with fast moving traffic connecting low density open spaces replete with parking options and single-story buildings. you will find life much more to your liking there.

[philly57]

Why do so many people in OC believe that every new development has to be built to mimic old colonial style buildings, especially when its been well established that attempts to mimic our historic buildings turn out looking like crap???

The cost to truly mimic historic buildings are astronomical and cutting corners to make a profit results in buildings that look like obvious fakes and don't blend in at all (the cheesy Revolution Museum is a perfect example). To be profitable, developers use fake brick sheets, not real brick and looks terrible. Instead of forcing developers to build ugly and obvious fakes, we should be encouraging them to build an eclectic mix of modern and new. London, a city with waaaay older buildings manages to mix the new and old quite well. Too far? Boston does it. Still too far? NoLibs has really modern developments cheek by jowl with early 19th century red brick buildings. And the juxtaposition looks awesome!

Old City is part of a living breathing city. It's not a museum or Colonial Williamsburg. Old City planners should focus on preserving the existing historic building stock, not making sure that everything new is built in the colonial style. The area under the BFB is no-man's land. If a developer wants to build here, the community should be supporting the project not standing in the way of progress.

[Cro Burnham]

But . . . MY PARKING!!!! MY VIEW! [commence melodramatic swooning]. Is it not my fundamental civil right to preserve these things for myself in perpetuity???? Not one more person should enjoy this neighborhood because then I have to SHARE more of it with NEW PEOPLE! Blech! And, this is just plain wrong and contrary to the tenets of good urban design: to paraphrase the wisdom of the never misinterpreted Jane Jacobs, the only way for my urban neighborhood to remain human and decent is to keep it identical to the way it was when I first arrived here. OCCA's task is already hard enough, trying to keep this true for 5,000 people all of whom arrived at different times over the past 35 years - we must not complicate it further by proposing something new, goddammit. Even the demigoddess of community planning, Jane Jacobs, would back us 100% on this.

May I also thank god for people like Mssrs. Thom and Gallery? Where would Philly be without pompous blowhard old timers whose antiquated 1970s world views are the last bastion protecting Old City from evolving beyond being an overpriced assortment of neglected derelict fire trap historic buildings and weedy lots? Thank you for your decades of obstruction and hot air puffery - I mean, service - to our fine city, you good gentlemen. Way to remain stalwart sticks in the mud: that is exactly what Old City needs now and forever.

Oh, excuse me now: I have to run and call 911, as the beautiful historic building next to mine is burning down. That's too bad. Note to self: at the next OCCA meeting, propose a policy that nothing new should be built in the remaining rubble strewn lot.

OCCA Member
Member, SOWRWFSJFW (Sacred Order of the Weed, Rotten Window Frame, Snapped Joist, and Frayed Wire)

[dartmo]

The area under the BFB is no-man's land. If a developer wants to build here, the community should be supporting the project not standing in the way of progress.

I certainly wouldn't say that lot is no-man's land, it's a pretty prime corner of OC.

But in general I agree, we don't need historical reenactment, but we do need a non-crappy building. The juxtiposition of old repurposed spaces and new spaces that reflect the neighborhood over time is much more interesting. I haven't seen the renderings for what would be built, but I'd actually be all for a modern building there, provided it worked in that space.

On a related note, that brick sheet stuff is so fake looking. How much better would the ballpark look if it had real brick?

[mixiboi]

It is no longer dead. No idea if this is the same as proposed before or not.

OCCA meeting on 8-28 to discuss the zoning change request for this building:

SIXTEEN (16) STORY STRUCTURE WITH CELLAR
(STRUCTURE HEIGHT: 197’-6”) FOR USE AS 128 DWELLING UNITS IN THE SECOND THROUGH SIXTEENTH FLOORS;
THIRTY-FOUR (34) INTERIOR OFF-STREET PARKING SPACES INCLUDING TWO (2) ACCESSSIBLE SPACES, BIKE PARKING AND UTILITIES IN THE CELLAR LEVEL;
OPEN-AIR ROOF GARDEN ABOVE THE FOUR (4) STORY PORTION;
FITNESS CENTER AND COMMUNITY ROOM IN THE FIFTH FLOOR (SOLELY FOR USE BY OCCUPANTS OF DWELLING UNITS);
COMMERCIAL SPACE AT THE GROUND FLOOR
AND PROVIDING ONE (1) OFF-STREET LOADING SPACE AT THE FLORIST STREET FRONTAGE (16’-0” X 40’-0”). SIZE AND LOCATION AS SHOWN IN THE APPLICATION / PLAN.

It sounds like a different project..but we will see August 28th as they always bring pictures...

[supersupper]

It sounds like a different project..but we will see August 28th as they always bring pictures...

Same Architects, same developer, same project.

The project has undergone several iterations since the first design as a Condo project. That building was a very interesting design (similar to their other project on Arch street, which they willingly worked with the neighbors per design changes). Unfortunately the developer was unwilling to compromise with the OCCA to get their blessing. The developer screamed and hollered and threatened to build a building that already had approved variances grandfathered in from the sale of the land. They "threatened" because everyone agreed, including the developer, that it was a horrendous design. The Developer was counting on OCCA to cave. They did not. In the end the developer never did build that approved design (so much for blaming NIMBYS for failure to construct).

[philly57]

So now developers have to get the neighborhood NIMBY's to agree to the design for approved projects? Where it end with these people? It's too modern. I don't like the balconies. The windows are ugly. I mean really. As the owner of the land, the developer has every right to do whatever they want with their building, providing it complies with the city's zoning code. After that, I would imagine that the NIMBY's would have exhausted all currency with the developer. At that point, the developer can surely say **** OFF, I have my variances.

[eldondre]

is much more attractive than


205 Race Street Project Back on Track? | NakedPhilly

[John Goodman]

looks good to me

[3rd and New]

A/N Blog . Race Street Rising

Here is a link for the updated renderings presented to OCCA earlier this week. Thoughts?

[mixiboi]

Oh wow, anyone that want to block that is a terrorist...

[BarryG]

jawn is bad ass.

Too bad OCCA voted 11-1 against it as Old City slips further into irrelevancy as both a residential and commercial neighborhood.