Woman Hit by Police Officer/Puerto Rican Parade

**jizay** · 10-03-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

Sounds like you're saying that being annoying qualifies as ****ing with the police. and as we established, people that **** with the police deserve to get their ass beat, right?

OK, I see where you are getting that now, but I didn't say the last part, someone else did. Either way, what she deserves is irrelevant to the propriety of the officer's conduct. I am not one bit sorry to see her get socked in the mouth. That doesn't mean you, I, or the officer can do the socking. Officer is wrong and should be reprimanded, woman deserves nothing in damages.

Originally Posted by thoth

How is it disingenuous when Malloy just said that anyone that got wasted and sprayed silly string at a parade like this would get their ass beat? That's definitely a wild exaggeration, even if there is some truth to it. There are people selling crates of silly string and noise makers and hundreds of people spraying silly string and being annoying all over the place at the parades he mentioned. That's why it's called a parade.

You are pretty obviously twisting what Malloy said to suit your argument, only I don't even know what your argument is at this point except continuing to disagree. There is silly string, etc. all over the place at parades, of course. There were tons of other people there using that stuff and having fun. If she was in a crowd of revelers having fun, that would be totally normal. You know damn well that's not what you're looking at. She is harrassing police in the course of doing their job. She is all alone, targeting them, taunting them, not celebrating. Context. If you go up to anyone else and act like that, yes, you might get punched. The puncher might still be arrested for assault, but don't be surprised if you get that reaction. That's the point. Why anyone would think it's OK to run up on the police like that, during an arrest, is completely beyond me. A 5 year old should know that's not OK.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-03-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

Most of those quotes are not inconsistent with the statement that "the punch was too much." You can say the punch was a big mistake and that you can see why Lt. Josey lost his **** while surrounded by a bunch of raving lunatics. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Thank you.

**thoth** · 10-03-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by jizay

OK, I see where you are getting that now, but I didn't say the last part, someone else did. Either way, what she deserves is irrelevant to the propriety of the officer's conduct. I am not one bit sorry to see her get socked in the mouth. That doesn't mean you, I, or the officer can do the socking. Officer is wrong and should be reprimanded, woman deserves nothing in damages.

Of course he probably won't be reprimanded and she'll get damages. The officer broke his code of conduct, end of story. He got pissed off at someone else entirely and then socked a person in the face who was annoying a police officer earlier. That's totally arbitrary.

Originally Posted by jizay

She is all alone, targeting them, taunting them, not celebrating. Context. If you go up to anyone else and act like that, yes, you might get punched. The puncher might still be arrested for assault, but don't be surprised if you get that reaction. That's the point. Why anyone would think it's OK to run up on the police like that, during an arrest, is completely beyond me. A 5 year old should know that's not OK.

You're telling me I don't have an argument when the only point you're making here is that you should have a reasonable expectation to get clocked by the police if you annoy them at a parade.

**PhilaCap** · 10-03-2012, 02:12 PM

Has the officer been arrested for assault?

**jizay** · 10-03-2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

You're telling me I don't have an argument when the only point you're making here is that you should have a reasonable expectation to get clocked by the police if you annoy them at a parade.

And your "point" is what? Nobody is disagreeing that the cop was wrong, so please don't repeat that. You keep coming at people who point out that the woman behaved badly, so is that it? Are you arguing she's totally cool? What are you arguing?

**Templeton** · 10-03-2012, 04:20 PM

Not to speak for Thoth, but I think his point is that Police should not sucker punch people in the face after they spray them with silly-string. Maybe a more proportional response would have been in order?

**thoth** · 10-03-2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by jizay

And your "point" is what? Nobody is disagreeing that the cop was wrong, so please don't repeat that. You keep coming at people who point out that the woman behaved badly, so is that it? Are you arguing she's totally cool? What are you arguing?

I'm coming at you and other people who are inferring that she deserved what she got because she was being an idiot and a normal person probably would have assaulted her anyway. That's screwed up. She was being an idiot, like literally everyone has said, but so what? You're saying I don't have a point because you claim that you agree with me that the cop was in the wrong, but you do so the most watered down way possible:

Originally Posted by jizay

What is all this talk about assault? Is it criminal now for police to use force during an arrest? Again, I think it was excessive, but cops punching someone they're arresting is not the same as a civilian punching a civilian. Also, the woman here is guilty of assault, not annoying someone. I know it's not a punch, but you can't spray things at people either.

Cop walks up and punches someone in the face who was bothering them and your reaction is "that wasn't assault" because the police can use force in the process of arresting someone. While that person's prior behavior may have warranted arrest (and i invite you to tell me what law she actually violated by acting like an idiot), that person did not resist arrest, nor were they even notified that they were being arrested until after they were struck in the back of the head. I'm not sure how else you want to qualify police brutality.

You can keep repeating "oh, i agree the cop was in the wrong, but...", but you're weaseling around what him being in the wrong actually means, and pushing the same line as everyone else that if you bother a cop you should have a reasonable expectation that they can hurt you, consequence-free. My point, from the beginning, is that that is a bad policing strategy, but it's also illegal. You seem to think there should be no repercussions beyond the cop being "reprimanded", whatever that means, and that this woman deserves nothing for getting her jaw knocked in, because she acted like a more or less law abiding ****head before that happened. How are you not endorsing this behavior?

**drewrob23** · 10-03-2012, 05:29 PM

I read an article a while back that said that officers aren't usually punished for infractions because they don't want officers to have to second guesz decisions that must be made in a split second. I understand the reasoning behind that but that seems like something that should apply during dangerous situations. Silly string or what don't seem to pose much of a threat. The fact that a commanding officer went ballistic like that speaks to a culture problem within the PPD and it isn't good when intelligent people try to condone their actions.

Everyone talks about how stressful police work is. It definitely seems to be, but when you've reached the point where you can snap at the smallest provocation, it might be time for a vacation or retirement.

Isn't it ironic that the officer involved is in charge of a non-violence initiative?

**Jayfar** · 10-03-2012, 05:53 PM

Philadelphia cop who punched woman on video to be fired | 6abc.com

Action News has learned that the officer, Lt. Jonathan Josey, will be fired on Thursday afternoon.

Philadelphia Police Lt. To Be Terminated After Controversial Video - CBS Philly

The Philadelphia Police lieutenant seen on video allegedly punching a woman during Sunday’s Puerto Rican Day celebration will be terminated, Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey said Wednesday.

Fox 29 is reporting the same.

**NJbound** · 10-03-2012, 05:53 PM

Now, the cop is being fired and she wants an apology.. So glad we are out of that damn Liberal city

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...172551681.html

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-03-2012, 06:13 PM

So now....it's open season? Throw whatever the phuque you want at cops since there will be no ramifications?

Ok, let's go with that.

**19147** · 10-03-2012, 06:14 PM

If the cop arrested the woman for obstruction of justice, it would have been appropriate. He had absolutely no right to escalate the situation and assault the woman. He showed a gross lack of judgement and misuse of power. He needed to be fired. I certainly don't want someone of authority to act the way that he did.

**ILoveBeer** · 10-03-2012, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by sharkey

Interesting thing in the video is that there are more than a dozen cops and everyone of them is facing the traffic stop. You'd think that in the situation a few of them would have the sense to turn around and keep an eye on the crowd.

You have no idea what is going on at that point. Maybe every cop on scene needed to face the model citizen being arrested

**2happy4u** · 10-03-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pitt

LOL oh I get it. You're too tough for college.
That's tremendous.
If it was true then maybe those blue collar heroes out in Manayunk would've scared all those Main Line brats out of their hood rather than sitting back like a stooge while roided up jugheads from Lower Merion puked on their stoops.
You're no man. Quit pretending you are.
You champion the beating of women by men of authority 2.5 x's her size.
That speaks volumes.

What is a stoop? LMAO

**ILoveBeer** · 10-03-2012, 07:24 PM

Let's relieve some of these pictures, and imagine we are officers trying to handle this.

http://www.philly.com/philly/enterta...mpid=100978044

We see beautiful children celebrating their heritage. In picture 12 we see two young kids on an illegal dirt bike, which we all complain about. Picture 19, two girls hanging out the window, and one out the sunroof, and one sitting on the roof. Picture 21, two very young girls sitting on the roof of a moving car. Picture 22, one doggy style on the roof of a car. 23, another picture of the illegal dirt bike coming down the street. 25, a guy in a saw mask, I'm sure just to celebrate. 37, the ol silly string out the car. 35, a lovely couple dancing on the roof of a moving car. But my all time favorite. number 47. A motorist drinking Four Loco, while six girls ride on the roof of a moving car

So maybe put yourself in the place of these officers. I'm sure they were getting total corporation from the community, and things got over heated. Right, wrong or indifferent **** happens. Does this cop deserve to lose his job, imho , no. But some of you will be very happy,so good for you

**jizay** · 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

You can keep repeating "oh, i agree the cop was in the wrong, but...", but you're weaseling around what him being in the wrong actually means, and pushing the same line as everyone else that if you bother a cop you should have a reasonable expectation that they can hurt you, consequence-free. My point, from the beginning, is that that is a bad policing strategy, but it's also illegal. You seem to think there should be no repercussions beyond the cop being "reprimanded", whatever that means, and that this woman deserves nothing for getting her jaw knocked in, because she acted like a more or less law abiding ****head before that happened. How are you not endorsing this behavior?

He was reprimanded, which you insisted he wouldn't be. If the reports are true, he is going to be fired. That's good enough for me. I repeat, she deserves not one red cent. She's asking for an apology now, no doubt fueled by all the sympathy and support she is getting from people who want to send the strongest signal that they condemn the cop. In a sane world, she would reflect on what she did and conclude that she did something wrong, regardless of what anyone else did wrong. Instead, the entire lesson is lost and she is owed an apology. She's a creep. She was being lots more than idiot, she was being lawless and combative, and we should all be recognizing that and not coddling her and defending what she did. I don't get any sense from you or a few other posters that you realize that. I wonder how much more of this nonsense there will be at next year's parade. Maybe people will mess with cops all day hoping to win the lottery.

Edit: Now I'm reading her charges were dropped. How does it make any sense at all to drop the charges because of what someone did after she broke the law? That kind of stuff happens because well-meaning but dumb people romanticize the woman as part of condemning the cop.

**NJbound** · 10-03-2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

So now....it's open season? Throw whatever the phuque you want at cops since there will be no ramifications?

Ok, let's go with that.

exactly. She sprayed an officer with a chemical, gets whacked for attacking an officer, now charges are dropped against her and Ill bet next months check she wil sue and win a few mil from the city and the 17 year veteran officer loses his career. Sounds about right..

**Malloy** · 10-03-2012, 09:08 PM

You are almost as bad as Jizay here. I clearly stated the cop was dead wrong. She was too. Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by eldondre

punching a small woman in the face is a huge ahole move. the fact is if I go to an UHURU rally and heckle them, I can charge them for assault if they punch me in the face. do you even know what she said or are you just assuming? I don't heckle cops and generally give them respect but that doesn't excuse what he did...adding to it that he's a white shirt ans supposed to set an example, it's really inexcusable, which the commissioner is at least willing to admit, unliek the badge sniffers on here . this thread is a lot like the rape thread with you guys more intent on bashing the girl for being an idiot and passing out on the parkway than acknowledging rape is not a justified response to finding a passed our woman on the parkway.

it's dumb behavior but not uncommon, unless you've never been to an eagles game. anyway, yes, ahole behavior, which many people are capable of from time to time, which doesn't actually make them aholes. please explain why it was the white shirt, with 13 prior complaints, that punched her and not one of the other cops? didn't think so.

**Debbie1125** · 10-04-2012, 08:04 AM

Both were in the wrong. However, I don't think the cop should have been fired. A suspension without pay for a bit would have been more appropriate. I do not agree that charges against the woman should have been dropped. She was provoking a police officer.

But then again, the police department has to be PC and not rile up the community. The situation is already tense between police and Hispanics

I will say this though. The community has no reason to whine when the police are afraid to do anything for fear of accusations of brutality.