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  1. #1
    Moonraker is offline Rocket Scientist
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    Default The National Rifle Association- then & now, problem or solution

    I spent Friday in Washington listening to DC talk radio as the Newtown CT story evolved in real time.

    I seems to me that once upon a time, the NRA mission had the respect of many non-sportsmen and unarmed citizens. Their emphasis on gun safety, especially for junior was commendable. Then, the evolution of hand weaponry and changes in society have led to what may be a corruption of that mission. Not quite between the lines, possibly just short of full disclosure, The President addressed the need for this nation to re-address Gun Control. I left Washington with the belief that our politicians could and should stand strong and provide the leadership in this matter to be called Statesmen. We shall see.

    Another take-away from my day in DC was that the NRA may no longer be as powerful a career changer for the politicians. It's days as a strong lobby may be ebbing. Today, the NRA is at a crossroad. Will it become part of the solution or part of the problem? While Congress can not agee on the Fiscal Cliff, I expect the membership of the NRA to take a good look at what the nation wants/needs/demands and self police themselves to create and recommend change of policy for themselves and the nation.

    To Congress, beware! Between the 60% of American who votes, and the 40% who failed to vote, 2014 could be the Year of the Turnover.

  2. #2
    Preesi's Avatar
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    I wonder what these NRA card toting Gun loving hardliners would do if suddenly a large amount of traditionally dressed Muslim Arabs
    showed up toting guns in their pick up trucks gun racks and driving around in their cities?

    YEP, I dont even have to say it...

  3. #3
    FKD19124 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preesi View Post
    I wonder what these NRA card toting Gun loving hardliners would do if suddenly a large amount of traditionally dressed Muslim Arabs
    showed up toting guns in their pick up trucks gun racks and driving around in their cities?

    YEP, I dont even have to say it...

  4. #4
    toxigal is offline Senior Member
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    Do you actually read posts or do you just see "NRA" and start posting pro-gun crap? What does Timothy McVeigh have to do with the questions raised in the OP?


    Quote Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post

  5. #5
    Pitt is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by toxigal View Post
    Do you actually read posts or do you just see "NRA" and start posting pro-gun crap? What does Timothy McVeigh have to do with the questions raised in the OP?
    You're wasting your time.

  6. #6
    toxigal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitt View Post
    You're wasting your time.
    i know. but i have a boring report to write.....

  7. #7
    Pitt is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by toxigal View Post
    i know. but i have a boring report to write.....
    In that case I'm wasting my time too, but I recommend Slate, Vanity Fair and Daily Beast.

  8. #8
    Sailaway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonraker View Post
    I spent Friday in Washington listening to DC talk radio as the Newtown CT story evolved in real time.

    I seems to me that once upon a time, the NRA mission had the respect of many non-sportsmen and unarmed citizens. Their emphasis on gun safety, especially for junior was commendable. Then, the evolution of hand weaponry and changes in society have led to what may be a corruption of that mission. Not quite between the lines, possibly just short of full disclosure, The President addressed the need for this nation to re-address Gun Control. I left Washington with the belief that our politicians could and should stand strong and provide the leadership in this matter to be called Statesmen. We shall see.

    Another take-away from my day in DC was that the NRA may no longer be as powerful a career changer for the politicians. It's days as a strong lobby may be ebbing. Today, the NRA is at a crossroad. Will it become part of the solution or part of the problem? While Congress can not agee on the Fiscal Cliff, I expect the membership of the NRA to take a good look at what the nation wants/needs/demands and self police themselves to create and recommend change of policy for themselves and the nation.

    To Congress, beware! Between the 60% of American who votes, and the 40% who failed to vote, 2014 could be the Year of the Turnover.
    Yes, the year where Democrats will have their a$$es handed to them, as happened in 1994 and 2000. Today, the NRA membership is even higher, for good reason. Gun control extremists never take a break.
    Last edited by Sailaway; 12-17-2012 at 11:49 AM.
    If you believe people should work till they die to pay for a government worker to retire at 50, you're a Democrat. Otherwise, you're a Republican. All other differences between the parties are trivial.

  9. #9
    Pitt is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailaway View Post
    Yes, the year where Democrats will have their a$$es handed to them, as happened in 1994 and 2000. Today, even more Americans are opposed to gun control than then and the NRA membership is even higher, for good reason. Gun control extremists never take a break.
    LOL am I a 'gun control extremist' even though I have a Glock 9mm?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitt View Post
    LOL am I a 'gun control extremist' even though I have a Glock 9mm?
    Some of the most ardent gun control extremists own guns or have armed bodyguards. Can you say "Mike Bloomberg"? Can you say "Rosie O'Donnell?" can you say "Josh Sugarmann?"

    There is very much of an "well I have mine so f--k you attitude out there."
    If you believe people should work till they die to pay for a government worker to retire at 50, you're a Democrat. Otherwise, you're a Republican. All other differences between the parties are trivial.

  11. #11
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    I own guns. I used to be a member of the NRA until they went batsh*t crazy. There are a LOT of emotions and kneejerk coming from both sides on this situation, and none of it is doing any good. This is particularly true of the anti-gun side: I saw a lot of really dumb things posted on Facebook over the past few days by a lot of people on that side who I thought were intelligent, but proved me wrong.

    With that said, *something* has to be done to attempt to prevent bad people from getting their hands on tools that can kill a lot of innocents. This includes fertilizer like in the case of McVeigh, but also should include weapons. I absolutely do not mean "ban all guns". What I do think is that the pro-gun side needs to come up with some suggestions if the want more public support. I have a few:

    1. All straw buyer loopholes need to be closed
    2. If you want an automatic or semiautomatic weapon, you should have to go through a rigorous background check, a psychiatric evaluation, and a waiting period.
    3. Gun free zones are incredibly naive and do nothing to protect people. They need to be abolished immediately.
    4. We MUST improve the mental health situation in this country. Shuttering the mental hospitals was a terrible move. We need to admit that some people are crazy and need to be kept away from society instead of naively thinking they can all be cured. Raise my taxes for this if you must.

    Both sides needs to make a sacrifice here. Unfortunately the state of opinions in this country is ultra-divided and unwilling to compromise. And continuing the emotional knee-jerk reactions won't help.

  12. #12
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailaway View Post
    Some of the most ardent gun control extremists own guns or have armed bodyguards. Can you say "Mike Bloomberg"? Can you say "Rosie O'Donnell?" can you say "Josh Sugarmann?"

    There is very much of an "well I have mine so f--k you attitude out there."
    Bloomberg is the worst hypocrite about this on the face of the planet.

  13. #13
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan69 View Post
    What I do think is that the pro-gun side needs to come up with some suggestions if the want more public support. I have a few:
    I also forgot the absolutely most reasonable suggestion of all: require all gun owners to pass a gun safety course. This is something all responsible gun owners should be doing anyway...I took mine when I was 12.

    I won't go as far as to say they should pass a marksmanship requirement, but there could be arguments made in favor of that...

  14. #14
    Sailaway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan69 View Post
    I also forgot the absolutely most reasonable suggestion of all: require all gun owners to pass a gun safety course. This is something all responsible gun owners should be doing anyway...I took mine when I was 12.

    I won't go as far as to say they should pass a marksmanship requirement, but there could be arguments made in favor of that...
    In principle it is a good idea, except for the fact that gun control extremists will always pervert this to make it harder for law-abiding citizens to be able to purchase a firearm.

    It might work if the gun control lobby hasn't consistently demonstrated that, if given an inch, they will try to take a mile. But, it's foolish to think this time will be different. The NRA tried appeasement in the mid-80's with the Firearm Owner Protection Act and again in the early 90's with their promotion of instacheck. Needless to say, that has backfired badly.

    That said, the idea of a mandatory gun safety course might hold more sway if it automatically included a lifetime permit to carry.
    If you believe people should work till they die to pay for a government worker to retire at 50, you're a Democrat. Otherwise, you're a Republican. All other differences between the parties are trivial.

  15. #15
    Politburo is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailaway View Post
    In principle it is a good idea, except for the fact that gun control extremists will always pervert this to make it harder for law-abiding citizens to be able to purchase a firearm.

    It might work if the gun control lobby hasn't consistently demonstrated that, if given an inch, they will try to take a mile. But, it's foolish to think this time will be different. The NRA tried appeasement in the mid-80's with the Firearm Owner Protection Act and again in the early 90's with their promotion of instacheck. Needless to say, that has backfired badly.

    That said, the idea of a mandatory gun safety course might hold more sway if it automatically included a lifetime permit to carry.
    We also shouldn't use breathalyzers on suspected drunk drivers, because MADD.

  16. #16
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    ArcticSplash is offline Dixie Normus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan69 View Post
    I own guns. I used to be a member of the NRA until they went batsh*t crazy. There are a LOT of emotions and kneejerk coming from both sides on this situation, and none of it is doing any good. This is particularly true of the anti-gun side: I saw a lot of really dumb things posted on Facebook over the past few days by a lot of people on that side who I thought were intelligent, but proved me wrong.

    With that said, *something* has to be done to attempt to prevent bad people from getting their hands on tools that can kill a lot of innocents. This includes fertilizer like in the case of McVeigh, but also should include weapons. I absolutely do not mean "ban all guns". What I do think is that the pro-gun side needs to come up with some suggestions if the want more public support. I have a few:

    1. All straw buyer loopholes need to be closed
    2. If you want an automatic or semiautomatic weapon, you should have to go through a rigorous background check, a psychiatric evaluation, and a waiting period.
    3. Gun free zones are incredibly naive and do nothing to protect people. They need to be abolished immediately.
    4. We MUST improve the mental health situation in this country. Shuttering the mental hospitals was a terrible move. We need to admit that some people are crazy and need to be kept away from society instead of naively thinking they can all be cured. Raise my taxes for this if you must.

    Both sides needs to make a sacrifice here. Unfortunately the state of opinions in this country is ultra-divided and unwilling to compromise. And continuing the emotional knee-jerk reactions won't help.
    Pennsylvania just set a mandatory 5 to 10 year sentence on straw purchasers.

    What's now needed is some prison population reform--we need to clear some space of harmless junkies (sorry, but they have to be released) to get these killers-in-ankle-bracelets in state lockup for longer periods.

    PA wants to avoid this debate, but marijuana legalization is predicted to clear plenty of bed space. Say we also lowered straight possession sentences as well (not PWID). For defendants with simple possession and no VUFA charges, they could get a slap on the wrist and a walk.

    But if you have VUFA that should carry some time. Repeat VUFA, and you should get very hefty time that comes with parole/probation minimums.




    If you make the street calculus work out so that if you're caught w/o a gun and you weren't shooting, you're out much quicker than if you were carrying fully loaded with +1 in the chamber, then you get some good time. Repeat VUFA a second time, you get a lot more time. 3rd time VUFA, you get state lockup 10 years. That will make a big difference in the calculus on the street.

  17. #17
    ArcticSplash's Avatar
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    For VUFA offenders that make it parole and probation, we need a Gun Offender registry. Age, sex, weight, race, mugshot, link to their rap sheets and their current home address on file with probation.

    We need to know who these people are and where they live. I definitely want to know.

    Megan's Law got tested out the wazoo for constitutionality, so I don't believe this idea will get shot down easily in court. Those on the registry may fear retaliation but you know what... f_ck 'em.

    They need to live under the same kind of fear they inflict on the rest of us.

  18. #18
    Preesi's Avatar
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    I dated hunters, I wanted to go hunting with them.

    I VALUE people who live off the land and are self sustaining ...

    I also respect peoples rights to defend themselves, BUT I doubt the Founding Fathers knew or would have approved of UZIS and 6 yr olds being gun the f**k down
    in school!

  19. #19
    bootsywannabe is offline Banned
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    Funny how nobody ever mentions all the images of violence kids see everyday on TV shows, movies and video games. Hollywood seems to get a pass in the current hysterical coverage. Also, I guess the fact that CT just shot down some mental health bill was irrelevant as well; nuts like this should not have access to guns, and I think there were plenty of warning signs this guy was off his rocker. Who really failed here anyway?

  20. #20
    toxigal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsywannabe View Post
    Funny how nobody ever mentions all the images of violence kids see everyday on TV shows, movies and video games.
    because study after study has found no correlation between violent video games and movies and crime.

 

 

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