Romney Debate Fact Checker

[Bixbyte]

ROMNEY: Obama's health care plan "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don't like that idea."

THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama's health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn't have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.

Romney seems to be resurrecting the assertion that Obama's law would lead to rationing, made famous by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's widely debunked allegation that it would create "death panels."

The board has yet to be named, and its members would ultimately have to be confirmed by the Senate. Health care inflation has been modest in the last few years, so cuts would be unlikely for most of the rest of this decade.


________

ROMNEY on the failure of Obama's economic policy: "And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is 1 out of 6 people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million on food stamps to 47 million on food stamps. The proof of that is that 50 percent of college graduates this year can't find work."

THE FACTS: The number of unemployed is 12.5 million, not 23 million. Romney was also counting 8 million people who are working part time but would like a full-time job and 2.6 million who have stopped looking for work, either because they are discouraged or because they are going back to school or for other reasons.

______________

ROMNEY: "At the same time, gasoline prices have doubled under the president. Electric rates are up."

THE FACTS: He's right that the average price has doubled, and a little more, since Obama was sworn in. But presidents have almost no influence on gasoline prices, and certainly not in the near term. Gasoline prices are set on financial exchanges around the world and are based on a host of factors, most importantly the price of crude oil used to make gasoline, the amount of finished gasoline ready to be shipped and the capacity of refiners to make enough to meet market demand.

Retail electricity prices have risen since Obama took office — barely. They've grown by an average of less than 1 percent per year, less than the rate of inflation and slower than the historical growth in electricity prices. The unexpectedly modest rise in electricity prices is because of the plummeting cost of natural gas, which is used to generate electricity.
________

ROMNEY: "What would I cut from spending? Well, first of all, I will eliminate all programs by this test, if they pass it: Is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it?"

THE FACTS: China continues to be portrayed by Romney and many other Republicans as the poster child for runaway federal deficits. It's true that China is the largest foreign holder of U.S. debt, but it only represents about an 8 percent stake. And China has recently been decreasing its holdings, according to the Treasury Department. Some two-thirds of the $16 trillion national debt is owed to the federal government, with the largest single stake the Federal Reserve, as well as American investors and the Social Security Trust Fund.

________

ROMNEY on cutting the deficit: "Obamacare's on my list. ... I'm going to stop the subsidy to PBS. ... I'll make government more efficient."

THE FACTS: Romney has promised to balance the budget in eight years to 10 years, but he hasn't offered a complete plan. Instead, he's promised a set of principles, some of which — like increasing Pentagon spending and restoring more than $700 billion in cuts that Democrats made in Medicare over the coming decade — work against his goal. He also has said he will not consider tax increases.

He pledges to shrink the government to 20 percent of the size of the economy, as opposed to more than 23 percent of gross domestic product now, by the end of his first term. The Romney campaign estimates that would require cuts of $500 billion from the 2016 budget alone. He also has pledged to cut tax rates by 20 percent, paying for them by eliminating tax breaks for the wealthiest and through economic growth.

To fulfill his promise, then, Romney would require cuts to other programs so deep — under one calculation requiring cutting many areas of the domestic budget by one-third within four years — that they could never get through Congress. Cuts to domestic agencies would have to be particularly deep.

But he's offered only a few modest examples of government programs he'd be willing to squeeze, like subsidies to PBS and Amtrak. He does want to repeal Obama's big health care law, but that law is actually forecast to reduce the deficit.

___

ROMNEY: "Simpson-Bowles, the president should have grabbed that."

OBAMA: "That's what we've done, made some adjustments to it, and we're putting it before Congress right now, a $4 trillion plan."

THE FACTS: At first, the president did largely ignore the recommendations made by his deficit commission headed by Democrat Erskine Bowles and Republican Alan Simpson. He later incorporated some of the proposals, largely the less controversial ones. He did not endorse some of the politically troublesome recommendations, such as trimming popular tax deductions like the one for home mortgage interest.

[Gio7707]

At Last Night's Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes | ThinkProgress

Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney’s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama’s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths:

5) “I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it’s completely wrong.” The studies Romney cites actually further prove that Romney would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.

6) “I saw a study that came out today that said you’re going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.” Romney is pointing to this study from the American Enterprise Institute. It actually found that rather than raise taxes to pay down the debt, the Obama administration’s policies — those contained directly in his budget — would reduce the share of taxes that go toward servicing the debt by $1,289.89 per taxpayer in the $100,000 to $200,000 range.

) “The president’s put it in place as much public debt — almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined.” This is not even close to being true. When Obama took office, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. Now the national debt is over $16 trillion. That $5.374 trillion increase is nowhere near as much debt as all the other presidents combined.

13) “I want to take that $716 billion you’ve cut and put it back into Medicare…. But the idea of cutting $716 billion from Medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of Obamacare is, in my opinion, a mistake. There’s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan’s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

19) “And, unfortunately, when — when — when you look at Obamacare, the Congressional Budget Office has said it will cost $2,500 a year more than traditional insurance. So it’s adding to cost.” Obamacare will actually provide millions of families with tax credits to make health care more affordable.

[NickTheCage]

Anyone watching these debates for "facts" from both sides doesn't have a clue.

[Giavella Water]

At Last Night's Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes | ThinkProgress

Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney’s strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama’s policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths:

5) “I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it’s completely wrong.” The studies Romney cites actually further prove that Romney would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.

6) “I saw a study that came out today that said you’re going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.” Romney is pointing to this study from the American Enterprise Institute. It actually found that rather than raise taxes to pay down the debt, the Obama administration’s policies — those contained directly in his budget — would reduce the share of taxes that go toward servicing the debt by $1,289.89 per taxpayer in the $100,000 to $200,000 range.

) “The president’s put it in place as much public debt — almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined.” This is not even close to being true. When Obama took office, the national debt stood at $10.626 trillion. Now the national debt is over $16 trillion. That $5.374 trillion increase is nowhere near as much debt as all the other presidents combined.

13) “I want to take that $716 billion you’ve cut and put it back into Medicare…. But the idea of cutting $716 billion from Medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of Obamacare is, in my opinion, a mistake. There’s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan’s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

19) “And, unfortunately, when — when — when you look at Obamacare, the Congressional Budget Office has said it will cost $2,500 a year more than traditional insurance. So it’s adding to cost.” Obamacare will actually provide millions of families with tax credits to make health care more affordable.

Well if Romney was fibbing, why didn't Obama point it out with your figures?

[seand]

But Romney's tax plan, or rather the lack of specifics on what his "magic" deductions are, is a whole new level of invention.

He says he's going cut rates by 20%, potentially blowing a huge hole in the deficit. He says he'll hold onto the revenue by "eliminating loopholes and deductions" but won't say what exactly those are or how they could possibly balance out that loss in revenue. There simply are not enough deductions on the books to do that, even if he eliminated all of them.

Its like all he has to say is the magic word "loopholes and deductions" and the rules of basic math don't apply.

If he's eliminating the mortgage interest deduction thats a huge shift in the tax burden onto middle class homeowners. It could be a death blow to the recovery of the real estate market. The impact on the real costs of homeownership are huge.

Its criminal how passive Obama was about calling Romney out on this piece of numerical fiction when essentially Romeny's claiming the impossible via the magical deployment of "eliminating deductions and loopholes".

Romneys pulling a Wimpy, as in . . .

[enyo]

But Romney's tax plan, or rather the lack of specifics on what his "magic" deductions are, is a whole new level of invention.

He says he's going cut rates by 20%, potentially blowing a huge hole in the deficit. He says he'll hold onto the revenue by "eliminating loopholes and deductions" but won't say what exactly those are or how they could possibly balance out that loss in revenue. There simply are not enough deductions on the books to do that, even if he eliminated all of them.

Its like all he has to say is the magic word "loopholes and deductions" and the rules of basic math don't apply.

If he's eliminating the mortgage interest deduction thats a huge shift in the tax burden onto middle class homeowners. It could be a death blow to the recovery of the real estate market. The impact on the real costs of homeownership are huge.

Its criminal how passive Obama was about calling Romney out on this piece of numerical fiction when essentially Romeny's claiming the impossible via the magical deployment of "eliminating deductions and loopholes".

Romneys pulling a Wimpy, as in . . .

Yes he's brought up the Mortgage tax deductions a few times and mentioned capping Mortgage and Health at 17K a year.
Which is like 1500 a month mortage. So basically the east coast and west coast would get hit harder than other areas
like most of the Red States.

I imagine they'd cap it at 17k and then drag their feet when it comes to adjusting it for interest every couple of years.

[enyo]

Well if Romney was fibbing, why didn't Obama point it out with your figures?

Obama did try to point out several times that Romney's math doesn't work when they were talking about taxes and He did re-iterate that the
700 billion coming out of Medicaid came out of the insurers side. Obama was too civil.

[Giavella Water]

Obama did try to point out several times that Romney's math doesn't work when they were talking about taxes and He did re-iterate that the
700 billion coming out of Medicaid came out of the insurers side. Obama was too civil.

Your running for POTUS for a second term and you can't refute your opponents false figures without being un civil? Com'on!

[thegreattwizz]

Your running for POTUS for a second term and you can't refute your opponents false figures without being un civil? Com'on!

It was obvious that one was being a gentleman, and following the rules, while the other was not.

More importantly, neither of them directly answered a single question.

[NickTheCage]

It was obvious that one was being a gentleman, and following the rules, while the other was not.

More importantly, neither of them directly answered a single question.

Gentleman look their opponents in the eye

[hkp]

Gentleman look their opponents in the eye

Meanwhile, Iran's currency took a big 40% dump. Now's the time to invade!



FKD'd

[phillycat]

Ha, this was a classic Obama/Axelrod strategy, and I'm not surprised the idiot pundits (who also have a vested interest in keeping this turkey of a race interesting) have totally missed the point.

He didn't need to risk looking unpresidential by calling the lying liar who lies on his ridiculous lies. There are exactly seven states (really two) that are going to decide this election. He just needed to let Romney talk, knowing Romney couldn't say anything remotely palatable or commonsensical about his plans without totally lying in ways that could be easily shown after the fact. He was running out the clock.

Today, those lies are being recut into advertisements and speeches showing Romney as the souless liar he is that will be targeted at Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. If Obama wins Ohio and Florida, it is over. If he wins Ohio (where he is leading handily) Romney needs to run the table and win everything else. Look how jaunty Obama is today. This is a guy who sees his plan working just fine.

No doubt Romney gave the strongest performance of his campaign last night. Unfortunately he is the guy with the fancy knife moves coming after Indiana Jones, who then wearily pulls out a gun and shoots the f&&*&er.

Axelrod is truly a genius.

[raider.adam]

Ha, this was a classic Obama/Axelrod strategy, and I'm not surprised the idiot pundits (who also have a vested interest in keeping this turkey of a race interesting) have totally missed the point.

He didn't need to risk looking unpresidential by calling the lying liar who lies on his ridiculous lies. There are exactly seven states (really two) that are going to decide this election. He just needed to let Romney talk, knowing Romney couldn't say anything remotely palatable or commonsensical about his plans without totally lying in ways that could be easily shown after the fact. He was running out the clock.

Today, those lies are being recut into advertisements and speeches showing Romney as the souless liar he is that will be targeted at Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. If Obama wins Ohio and Florida, it is over. If he wins Ohio (where he is leading handily) Romney needs to run the table and win everything else. Look how jaunty Obama is today. This is a guy who sees his plan working just fine.

No doubt Romney gave the strongest performance of his campaign last night. Unfortunately he is the guy with the fancy knife moves coming after Indiana Jones, who then wearily pulls out a gun and shoots the f&&*&er.

Axelrod is truly a genius.

holy moly

[Gio7707]

[seand]

Obama may having been playing a "stay presidential, let the others do the fighting" strategy but he was too detachedfor his own good, generally. Romney at points ventured into the overly push car salesman on the other hand.

I feel like "let me tell you how moderate I am" Mitt Romney from last night was a totally different candidate (with totally different policy positions) last night than from the entire rest of his still ridiculously vague campaign so far.

[NickTheCage]

Ha, this was a classic Obama/Axelrod strategy, and I'm not surprised the idiot pundits (who also have a vested interest in keeping this turkey of a race interesting) have totally missed the point.

He didn't need to risk looking unpresidential by calling the lying liar who lies on his ridiculous lies. There are exactly seven states (really two) that are going to decide this election. He just needed to let Romney talk, knowing Romney couldn't say anything remotely palatable or commonsensical about his plans without totally lying in ways that could be easily shown after the fact. He was running out the clock.

Today, those lies are being recut into advertisements and speeches showing Romney as the souless liar he is that will be targeted at Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. If Obama wins Ohio and Florida, it is over. If he wins Ohio (where he is leading handily) Romney needs to run the table and win everything else. Look how jaunty Obama is today. This is a guy who sees his plan working just fine.

No doubt Romney gave the strongest performance of his campaign last night. Unfortunately he is the guy with the fancy knife moves coming after Indiana Jones, who then wearily pulls out a gun and shoots the f&&*&er.

Axelrod is truly a genius.

holy moly

All going as designed and planned, right phillycat?

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

[jdhill]

Ha, this was a classic Obama/Axelrod strategy, and I'm not surprised the idiot pundits (who also have a vested interest in keeping this turkey of a race interesting) have totally missed the point.

He didn't need to risk looking unpresidential by calling the lying liar who lies on his ridiculous lies. There are exactly seven states (really two) that are going to decide this election. He just needed to let Romney talk, knowing Romney couldn't say anything remotely palatable or commonsensical about his plans without totally lying in ways that could be easily shown after the fact. He was running out the clock.

Today, those lies are being recut into advertisements and speeches showing Romney as the souless liar he is that will be targeted at Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. If Obama wins Ohio and Florida, it is over. If he wins Ohio (where he is leading handily) Romney needs to run the table and win everything else. Look how jaunty Obama is today. This is a guy who sees his plan working just fine.

No doubt Romney gave the strongest performance of his campaign last night. Unfortunately he is the guy with the fancy knife moves coming after Indiana Jones, who then wearily pulls out a gun and shoots the f&&*&er.

Axelrod is truly a genius.

You're probably right. One can win by winning, but when one loses, they actually win, and the bigger the loss, the greater the win...

Keep it up!

[NickTheCage]

Where is the BamBam fact checker?

Oh thats right, he didn't actually say anything except:

"Grandma won't have healthcare"
"Kids will be on the streets if we don't pump more money into an already failed education system"
"Grandpa won't have healthcare"
"Millionaires like myself and billionaires"

What an empty suit.

[seand]

This is fair blow-by-blow for claims by both sides.

Factchecking the first presidential debate - The Washington Post

[raider.adam]

FactCheck.org : Dubious Denver Debate Declarations

This looked to be a good one too.