Romney at a Private Fundraiser: Obama Voters Are 'Dependent upon Government'

[NickTheCage]

So...are you writing your own name on Election Day?

Nah Politburo or five apples

Oh; because you're the only one making any sense.

Of course I make sense! I understand and recognize the fundamental nature of human beings. I also understand the playbook which works best with the notion of freedom, liberty, as well as the philosophy of individualism over collectivism.

I deal in realities and not something that makes you all touchy a feely like the economic simpletons fiveapples and politbouro. Just call this great quote “The Audacity of Reality”

“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”

– MFriedman

There aren’t many, if any, policies that Shosh, 5apps, Politburo, seand, phillycat or any of the other of the lefties on the board advocate for, that they can point to that show positive results. Here we are discussing dependency, poverty, etc. We have thrown over $1T @ the War on Poverty (thru taxation and theft of property) and what has it accomplished? It has gotten worse yet they want more of it.

Great, we’ll get even more poverty, more dependence, more borrowing enslaving us and more importantly our children, more govt programs/spending and waste, more taxation, more destroyed citizens, families, communities, work ethic/effort, character, as we continue to undermine the notion of freedom, liberty and prosperity.

And the real scary thing is how so many people can be so economically illiterate and actually think this is all healthy and sustainable. They still aren’t competent enough to understand that borrowing from the future to consume today isn’t an economic model that works (I won’t even go into the morality of it). Theoretically, for it to be of any benefit, it has to be spent productively which most sane people understand government is incapable of doing.

One of the most sinister, Marxist locutions to come out of the left in America is the effort to re-label consumption as investment yet you see it on this board daily.

[Jaysmom]

So, Romney was complaining about people being dependent on the govt. while at a function where he was depending on people to pay $50k to support him? Oh, the irony......

[geoffrobinson]

I'm a bit late to the game here, but I guess liberals should feel offended ...

if their convention didn't sound like Oprah's giveaway combined with Santa Claus. "Free birth control for you! Unrestrained entitlement spending for you! And a huge bailout for you! And that's why you should vote for your local Democrat."

[2happy4u]

They are working, you nitwit. That's why they have income to potentially tax.

I'd honestly be shocked if you weren't part of the 47%. I can't imagine you handling much more than stacking boxes for a living.

LMAO...8.2% unemployment for 42 months. everybody is working....Trust me, I pay more in tax then you make , now who's the nitwit?

[2happy4u]

So, Romney was complaining about people being dependent on the govt. while at a function where he was depending on people to pay $50k to support him? Oh, the irony......

Is this suppose to make sense?

[Sailaway]

So, Romney was complaining about people being dependent on the govt. while at a function where he was depending on people to pay $50k to support him? Oh, the irony......

Were those people the government? Were they giving away taxpayer dollars?

[hkp]

LMAO...8.2% unemployment for 42 months. everybody is working....Trust me, I pay more in tax then you make , now who's the liar?

Still you. And don't change the subject when you're proven wrong, as usual.

[Gio7707]

Who recorded romney ...who could it be ??? .....

Who Recorded Mitt Romney? - ABC News

[thoth]

Of course I make sense! I understand and recognize the fundamental nature of human beings.

lol

[Debbie1125]

Who recorded romney ...who could it be ??? .....

Who Recorded Mitt Romney? - ABC News

I was absolutely SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell you when I found out the source of this video. Grandson of Carter, who along with Obama and Bush, was one of this country's worst Presidents.

[ShoshTrvls]

I was absolutely SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell you when I found out the source of this video. Grandson of Carter, who along with Obama and Bush, was one of this country's worst Presidents.

Um, he didn't record it. He found it on YouTube and made sure it got seen.

That being said .... why shouldn't the world, and the voters, know the real Mitt? Are you that embarassed by him (admittedly, I would be, if he were my candidate)?

[NickTheCage]

Um, he didn't record it. He found it on YouTube and made sure it got seen.

That being said .... why shouldn't the world, and the voters, know the real Mitt? Are you that embarassed by him (admittedly, I would be, if he were my candidate)?

You will never know the real Mitt.

At this point, even Mitt doesn't know the real Mitt.

[NickTheCage]

Media is definitely doing it job for BamBam …

- muslim violence raging 4 years after BamBam promised to ease muslim and arab hatred of the USA and is despised by allies and foe
- Economy isn’t moving anywhere
- Fed announces QE3 and our credit rating has been downgraded again
- BamBams administration was nwarned days before the attack in Libya
- 4 years ago BamBam promised to cut the deficit in ½ but has continued to balloon it to astronomical numbers
- Welfare rolls have blown up to levels once inconceivable in the USA plus WE are actually paying for federal advertising to recruit more people onto welfare


And the media is discussing what Mittens said back in May … pathetic

[ShoshTrvls]

- Welfare rolls have blown up to levels once inconceivable in the USA plus WE are actually paying for federal advertising to recruit more people onto welfare

Since you don't have the statistics, I will provide them to you.

1980 -- 3.7 million households receiving "welfare" (AFDC)
2010 -- 1.6 million households receiving "welfare" (now TANF)

"Available data suggest that a large share of those who enroll in TANF remain on for short periods and a small share remain on for long periods. Federal data on the number of months current cases have accrued toward the federal 60month time limit provide a snapshot of recent spell lengths in progress. Excluding childonly
cases, 41 percent of FY 2009 cases had accrued less than a year and another 23 percent less than two years toward the 60 month limit. Only 12 percent had accumulated more than four years. The same data show that only 2 percent of cases were closed due to time limits. There is some evidence that individuals with characteristics that may make work more difficult (such as health problems, low education, and young children) are more likely to remain on TANF longer."

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opre...hange_time.pdf

And this "cycle?" A Virginia study shows that most families receive TANF for a year or less and most families had only 1 spell of TANF receipt. http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/ab...05-18-2012.pdf

Other state studies are similar, and the overall number of TANF "returnees" is less than 25%.

[BarryG]

Since you don't have the statistics, I will provide them to you.

1980 -- 3.7 million households receiving "welfare" (AFDC)
2010 -- 1.6 million households receiving "welfare" (now TANF)

"Available data suggest that a large share of those who enroll in TANF remain on for short periods and a small share remain on for long periods. Federal data on the number of months current cases have accrued toward the federal 60month time limit provide a snapshot of recent spell lengths in progress. Excluding childonly
cases, 41 percent of FY 2009 cases had accrued less than a year and another 23 percent less than two years toward the 60 month limit. Only 12 percent had accumulated more than four years. The same data show that only 2 percent of cases were closed due to time limits. There is some evidence that individuals with characteristics that may make work more difficult (such as health problems, low education, and young children) are more likely to remain on TANF longer."

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opre...hange_time.pdf

And this "cycle?" A Virginia study shows that most families receive TANF for a year or less and most families had only 1 spell of TANF receipt. http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/ab...05-18-2012.pdf

Other state studies are similar, and the overall number of TANF "returnees" is less than 25%.

What about food stamps and Medicaid?

[lemonfresh]

I like the fact that Romney won't apologize.

Why would you consider this admirable?

[Politburo]

There aren’t many, if any, policies that Shosh, 5apps, Politburo, seand, phillycat or any of the other of the lefties on the board advocate for, that they can point to that show positive results. Here we are discussing dependency, poverty, etc. We have thrown over $1T @ the War on Poverty (thru taxation and theft of property) and what has it accomplished? It has gotten worse yet they want more of it.

First, you whine about your positions are misrepresented ("You guys write as if I have never said end all farm subsides, oil, tax loopholes for everyone, HCare tax w/offs for corps but not individuals, etc, etc .. "), but you have no problem assuming that those of us who lean left automatically support everything and 'more of it'. And the craziest part is, the only thing that I think all of those people agree on is that tax rates should go back to what they were in the 90s. How radical...

Now as to the substance.. How the government fights poverty, in one chart

See also http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/pover...pov09fig05.pdf , specifically the sharp drops in the 60s. (note: this is a government chart, so it's a lie)

See also: http://www.lisdatacenter.org/wps/liswps/188.pdf though that study only goes through 1991 and is not US-centric. However it does briefly discuss possible reasons why the poverty graph levels off in the 70s.

Obviously a caveat of all the above is that correlation does not imply causation. I am not going to argue that all of the reductions in poverty are due to government programs, that is just silly (nor am I arguing that every government program is successful). But it seems like if you're going to argue that government programs have done nothing to reduce poverty, which your comment strongly implies, you have a bit of a climb ahead of you. And no, you don't get to redefine 'positive results' or concoct a 'dependency' that does not appear to exist.

I'll also highlight the last line of the linked post, because it captures much of my view on government:

Maybe there are better ways to reduce poverty than through government programs like these. But there’s no doubting that they’re keeping millions of people above the poverty line.

We lived without these programs for many years. We decided to make changes based on that experience. These programs didn't come out of nowhere, like things were going great and someone said 'hey, I've an idea, let's just give out money'. They came out of problems that our society faced at the time, and I don't think those problems have gone away. It hasn't worked out perfectly (nothing does), and there are budget issues to be addressed, but they certainly seem to have a net benefit. You not only don't see any positive results, you think these changes have "destroyed citizens, families, communities, work ethic/effort, character" and "undermine[d] the notion of freedom, liberty and prosperity". Do you really believe this ****?

[ShoshTrvls]

What about food stamps and Medicaid?

The majority of people who receive those benefits who are not also on TANF are the working poor (if they didn't have income, they would be eligible for TANF). We are more dependent upon them than they are on us, as they consist of military families ($88 million of food stamps were used at military commissaries in 2010), the check-out clerks at Walmart (one organization estimates that $2.66 BILLION dollars annually in food stamps, lunch subsidies for school children and Medicaid are needed by WalMart employees every year), the waitress at Denny's, etc. They are not sitting home eating bon-bons; many are working two or three jobs. If they perceive themselves as "victims" as Mitt asserts, it is because they are -- they are the victims of those billionaires sitting in that room with Mitt who profit by paying people minimum wage with no benefits.

[BarryG]

The majority of people who receive those benefits who are not also on TANF are the working poor (if they didn't have income, they would be eligible for TANF). We are more dependent upon them than they are on us, as they consist of military families ($88 million of food stamps were used at military commissaries in 2010), the check-out clerks at Walmart (one organization estimates that $2.66 BILLION dollars annually in food stamps, lunch subsidies for school children and Medicaid are needed by WalMart employees every year), the waitress at Denny's, etc. They are not sitting home eating bon-bons; many are working two or three jobs. If they perceive themselves as "victims" as Mitt asserts, it is because they are -- they are the victims of those billionaires sitting in that room with Mitt who profit by paying people minimum wage with no benefits.

Ok but you can't ignore these huge programs when talking about the sustainability of the size of our welfare state--welfare in the general sense.

[Sailaway]

Why would you consider this admirable?

Because he's being brutally honest, something that's rare in politicians these days. It's up there with supporting wealth redistribution, admitting corruption in the military, and so on. It's all factual, it happens, but we're not supposed to talk about it...

I still loathe the guy, but I like him a lot more now. I was starting to think Mitt was an Animatronic.