“Will Not Live to See Adulthood”

[Colin P. Varga]

There's zero evidence Zimmerman confronted Martin, much less that he was the attacker...

Zimmerman didn't have to attack under the FL Stand Your Ground statute Martin only had to feel threatened to defend himself.

[ACretin]

Have fun exacting your poetic justice on some poor slob. What sucks is when it happens to you. What will you do with your guilt then? You have no facts and are just making something up trying to convict some guy. Did you know Al Sharpton owes more than $4 million to the IRS. Have you ever heard of Tawana Brawley? That was BS too, just like this today. I'll stick with real justice, and that's why Zimmerman hasn't even been charged. They're still trying to drum up something to charge him with - got the whole justice department working overtime. What about those two kids who were shot dead in FL recently as they begged for their lives? Where's the outrage for that clear case?

Poetice justice is for chumps, and you wouldn't want this standard applied to you.

Talk about playing the victim. This is more of the same "victim" mentality.

[ACretin]

another guy who wishes he could have defended himself. how does stand your ground apply when you're on the ground? even under pa doctrine, you have no way of fleeing if you're on your back on the ground getting your head punched in. fists and feet can be deadly weapons as well. any concept other than defending yourself when you need to is totally at odds with the US constitution, and our history as a country. stand your ground is obvious. pa's concept of exhausting all efforts to flee is likely unconstitutional, and definitely a stupid doctrine put forth by "gun control" advocates.

recent Baltimore beating

Second Video Shows Brutal Gang Attack On Tourist Outside Baltimore Courthouse | The Smoking Gun



or in philly at broad and south

West Philly man pleads guilty to 'flash mob' assault - Philly.com

[Colin P. Varga]

another guy who wishes he could have defended himself...

My heart goes out to this guy.

I can also say I wish I had received the same treatment from my White attackers.

Thirdly, under the Stand Your Ground statute in FL. any of the people in the video in Baltimore could have said:

I thought I saw this guy's photo in the Post Office and he was wanted for murder therefore I felt threatened when he looked at me.

Or any number of defenses based on possible previous unlawful acts and then feeling threatened.

As to the guy in this video it seems he would be within his rights to defend himself without attempting to flee.

Section 505 - Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES

The operative phrase here would be: "with complete safety by retreating". Since he was surrounded he could have legally used deadly force.

[seand]

West Philly man pleads guilty to 'flash mob' assault - Philly.com

I was not expecting anything I would construe as "good news" when I saw activity in this thread but I'm glad to see this jerk get real time in this incident. An important step towards bringing this flash-mob crap under controll is for the people doing the attacks to start to face real penalties.

I would point out, if you erase out the racial component, Travon Martin is probably closer to the biker in this incident in terms of being the unarmed civilian unexpectedly being forced to defend himself from a pursuer who had no reason to be on the offensive.

[toxigal]

Yeah, it sounds like he was doing what a town watch person is supposed to do - observe, make a note of it and move on. He walked a little bit down the street to get the name of the street off the street sign, then walked back to his car.

Yeah, because he surely didn't know the name of the three streets in this neighborhood where he lived and regularly patrolled as a town watch person.

As he noted in the 911 call, trayvon was walking back and forth between houses, i.e. not on the street - sort of like someone might do if they were possibly looking to just steal something or break-in to a home, or just walking back to where he was staying, or all of these things.

quote the part of the 911 call that says that. because well, zimmerman didn't say that at all. he doesn't say he is walking back and forth between houses or that he was not on the street. he says he is "walking around, looking about". you know what, when i walk down the street, i look about too.

Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Trayvon came after him, attacked him, and was shot ultimately. If somebody is on top of you smashing your face in with his fists, and your head in with the sidewalk, it's not even a matter of invoking the stand your ground law in FL - it's simple self defense. He had no other options. He couldn't stand his ground because he was on the ground already.

what evidence is there that any of this happened as you describe?

Another question: what was zimmerman wearing? Was he wearing a town watch vest or other identifier? Either way, he was on the sidewalk walking back to his car, away from wherever trayvon was on the grass, when he was sucker punched. Is sucker punching a town watch person acceptable behavior? How about then trying to smash his head in, is that not a big deal?

how do you know zimmerman was on the side walk or martin was on the grass? you are just making stuff up.

[seand]

Have fun exacting your poetic justice on some poor slob. What sucks is when it happens to you. What will you do with your guilt then? You have no facts and are just making something up trying to convict some guy. Did you know Al Sharpton owes more than $4 million to the IRS. Have you ever heard of Tawana Brawley? That was BS too, just like this today. I'll stick with real justice, and that's why Zimmerman hasn't even been charged. They're still trying to drum up something to charge him with - got the whole justice department working overtime. What about those two kids who were shot dead in FL recently as they begged for their lives? Where's the outrage for that clear case?

Poetice justice is for chumps, and you wouldn't want this standard applied to you.

Talk about playing the victim. This is more of the same "victim" mentality.

No you are pathetic in terms of not being able to view an incident on any other terms than racial. If anyone is a victim in this thread, its you - a victim of a blinding prejudice.

[ACretin]

Nice try, I've never mentioned race though. You must have a very strong and convincing argument to support your own position if you insist on attacking me.

Hey though, is there any chance there's like some aspect of popular culture in the US that glorifies random attacks on people, and posts them on the web?

Is there any chance Trayvon visited these websites also? Did he make any comments online about these kinds of attacks.

Second Video Shows Brutal Gang Attack On Tourist Outside Baltimore Courthouse | The Smoking Gun

What about those two kids shot dad in FL ?

Britons shot in Florida killed as part of 'gang initiation' - Telegraph

[seand]

Trayvon Martin was breaking no laws, attacking no one and unarmed when he left 7-11 with his iced tea and Skittles. If Zimmerman had decided to run to Target a half hour later than he did, or merely waited for the police where he said he would, both of would be alive and doing just fine. Listing criminal attacks that have nothing to do with an unarmed civilian walking home underlines that you view everything in terms of some other kind of "Us" vs. "Them" that blinds you to fundamental differences in the incidents you keep citing. Its the same kind of blinding "Us" vs. "Them" mentality that makes you a diehard believer in insane birther conspiracies. Logic does not work for you.

[ACretin]

Trayvon Martin was breaking no laws, attacking no one and unarmed when he left 7-11 with his iced tea and Skittles. If Zimmerman had decided to run to Target a half hour later than he did, or merely waited for the police where he said he would, both of would be alive and doing just fine. Listing criminal attacks that have nothing to do with an unarmed civilian walking home underlines that you view everything in terms of some other kind of "Us" vs. "Them" that blinds you to fundamental differences in the incidents you keep citing. Its the same kind of blinding "Us" vs. "Them" mentality that makes you a diehard believer in insane birther conspiracies. Logic does not work for you.

Right, because you say so based on intentionally skewed news accounts, many of which were retracted with apologies - I give NBC, ABC, and CNN as examples.

[seand]

No based on the fact that Trayvon was unarmed and basically on the phone the entire time he was walking home from 7-11 and based on the full and unedited 911 transcripts which are in this thread if you bothered to read.

You are brick wall.

You are right - Obama's mother, the broke grad student flew half way around the world to give birth to her child in a 3rd world nation far from home and then executed the most elaborate conspiracy in history knowing that her child would be president some day. Similarly, its impossible for any unarmed black teen to be "innocent" in any confrontation ever, they all deserve to be shot and its just the liberal media that blinds people to that fact.

[toxigal]

Nice try, I've never mentioned race though. You must have a very strong and convincing argument to support your own position if you insist on attacking me.

Hey though, is there any chance there's like some aspect of popular culture in the US that glorifies random attacks on people, and posts them on the web?

Is there any chance Trayvon visited these websites also? Did he make any comments online about these kinds of attacks.

Second Video Shows Brutal Gang Attack On Tourist Outside Baltimore Courthouse | The Smoking Gun

What about those two kids shot dad in FL ?

Britons shot in Florida killed as part of 'gang initiation' - Telegraph

what are you rambling about? these cases are completely unrelated to the Martin case. why do you keep bringing up completely irrelevant stories?

[Templeton]

what are you rambling about? these cases are completely unrelated to the Martin case. why do you keep bringing up completely irrelevant stories?

I notice this happening on a lot of other boards as well. It seems many on the right don't/don't want to understand why people are upset. They want to make it about race (He's Hispanic not White, though you can be both) or about politics (He's a democrat!), or the classic "why aren't you outraged about X (where x is completely different-other than it probably involves Black people). Too many conservatives are going back to their circle the wagons model. They think liberals (who have the moral high ground on race) are "winning" this argument, it angers them, so they feel have to push back. They've created this victimized fantasy where liberals and the media are out to get white people (the real victims of racism) and their guns. They just can't seem to understand that people are upset because someone got killed and didn't receive due justice. It's really that simple.

[Sailaway]

I notice this happening on a lot of other boards as well. It seems many on the right don't/don't want to understand why people are upset. They want to make it about race (He's Hispanic not White, though you can be both) or about politics (He's a democrat!), or the classic "why aren't you outraged about X (where x is completely different-other than it probably involves Black people). Too many conservatives are going back to their circle the wagons model. They think liberals (who have the moral high ground on race) are "winning" this argument, it angers them, so they feel have to push back. They've created this victimized fantasy where liberals and the media are out to get white people (the real victims of racism) and their guns. They just can't seem to understand that people are upset because someone got killed and didn't receive due justice. It's really that simple.

I'm not really sure why you're talking about the "right" there but that is a case of the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. The left in this country can't be beat when it comes to segregating people into groups and pitting them against others and sometimes each other. And, further, the left loves to fan the flames of tension, especially racial tension, and then proceed to pander to various groups in order to appear the be racially "sensitive." It comes as little surprise who Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Spike Lee identify with politically - that kind of says it all, doesn't it?

To top it all off, the media was caught red-handed lying about many aspects of this attack. The mainstream media in this country isn't exactly right-wing (to say the least), especially socially. So, it's understandable that this case just might confirm the fears of many moderates and conservatives, and maybe the more reasonable liberals as well. The media misinformed the public pretty badly on this case; was any of the info they gave trustworthy?

[ACretin]

I notice this happening on a lot of other boards as well. It seems many on the right don't/don't want to understand why people are upset. They want to make it about race (He's Hispanic not White, though you can be both) or about politics (He's a democrat!), or the classic "why aren't you outraged about X (where x is completely different-other than it probably involves Black people). Too many conservatives are going back to their circle the wagons model. They think liberals (who have the moral high ground on race) are "winning" this argument, it angers them, so they feel have to push back. They've created this victimized fantasy where liberals and the media are out to get white people (the real victims of racism) and their guns. They just can't seem to understand that people are upset because someone got killed and didn't receive due justice. It's really that simple.

Nope, the victim fantasy is on the left side, and that's why the mainstream media (which skews heavily to the left) falsely presented this narrative where Trayvon was the "victim", and how it was about "race", despite evidence to the contrary. It was a tragedy all around, but Trayvon was not the victim. You want Poetic Justice. I want real justice, as stipulated in our constitution. Al, Jesse and Spike represent nothing other than the face of modern bigotry, and it is they and our mainstream media who foist these false narratives upon us, as they have for decades. Divide and conquer.

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin - WSJ.com

There have been many other similar incidents where the real victim has not been able to defend himself, and instead has ended up maimed or dead - both in Philly, Baltimore, FL and elsewhere. There's been no outrage over these incidents, and they keep happening all the time in cities all over the US. Our President has not spoken out against them. There are a lot of people sick of being teed-off upon by groups of young thugs, and sick of their perps being viewed as "victims" of their tragic life circumstances or some ****e, and let off easily. There are a lot of people willing to defend themselves if their government will not. I see no reason I should tie my hands behind my back if somebody is trying to kill me. Or any reason to run away. PA's laws are ridiculously stupid, and reward criminals. It is criminals who are the victims under these statues when law abiding citizens actually defend themselves. And this will change.

[Politburo]

Multiple outlets reporting Zimmerman to be charged.

[NickTheCage]

Multiple outlets reporting Zimmerman to be charged.

Yep .. by tonight.

Very eager to hear what the evidence shows. I would guess there must be some new evidence for her to charge him, otherwise the former DA who was replaced is going to make a great witness for the defense.

[seand]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin - WSJ.com

You did notice that Steele while criticizing what he percieves as a "culture of victimiztion" in that piece did strongly imply that he thinks Martin's shooting was not justified in that piece.
I mean I know you are all excited to have a black intellectual say something you kinda sorta but not really agree with.

[seand]

It will be interesting how the case unfolds. I notice that Zimmerman's lawyer quit just the day before he was charged because Zimmerman was not responding to his multiple attempts to contact with his client. Meanwhile Zimmerman did start a website to raise money. Sounds like Zimmerman is going to go for some combination of the legal hail mary / court of popular opinion strategy.

[ACretin]

You did notice that Steele while criticizing what he percieves as a "culture of victimiztion" in that piece did strongly imply that he thinks Martin's shooting was not justified in that piece.
I mean I know you are all excited to have a black intellectual say something you kinda sorta but not really agree with.

If you had actually read the article, and understood it, you would know that this is not what Steele said at all. Maybe think about working for CNN, NBC or ABC.

He said it was a tragic example of two young men trying to annihilate each other, but that Trayvon had got the drop on Zimmerman. That's it.

So anyway, after replacing the first DA (why?), and not going through a grand jury (who would want one of those anyway, certainly not the prosecution), we now have some trumped up charges in response to heavy handed politics from the Justice Department and Obama himself.

It'll be fun to watch this "prosecution" unravel. But that's not the real point. The real point is to score political points and twang those Poetic Justice heart strings one more time, just in time for the election. And that's why CNN, NBC and ABC grossly distorted the record: to do campaign work for the Obama administration. Our idiot lawyer President doesn't even understand Marbury vs Madison (1803), why would he let pesky little details like actual evidence get in the way of a politically motivated show trial.

And why is the Justice Department still fighting voter ID laws, AFTER THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD THEIR CONSTITUTIONALITY IN 2008. Half the states in the US have voter ID laws now. It's legal. How about Holder spends some time doing something that actually benefits the US, instead of Obama and his communist buddies.