Paul Ryan, GOP Congressmembers in the Hot Seat - Kill Medicare

[ArcticSplash]

House Republicans regroup after Medicare anger - Politics - Capitol Hill - msnbc.com

Well the screaming matches between seniors has started.

The Tea Party knew this was gonna happen. I'm sitting back with the popcorn to see how far this goes before they cave.

[geoffrobinson]

House Republicans regroup after Medicare anger - Politics - Capitol Hill - msnbc.com

Well the screaming matches between seniors has started.

The Tea Party knew this was gonna happen. I'm sitting back with the popcorn to see how far this goes before they cave.

Unfortunately for seniors, you can't argue and scream with math and demographics.

[Bob_Head]

Unfortunately for math and demographics, you can't argue and scream with seniors.

Fixed.

[Dayman]

I'd love to see the government eliminate every single entitlement program (even for soldiers), just so I can see former Tea Partiers rise up in the socialist revolt.

[StrangeTanks]

I think it would be pretty enlightening to publish congressmen net worths and benefits.

Basically, I think you would see:

Tax breaks for us.
Lifetime benefits for us.
Less work for us.
The rest of you should be happy being chattel to protect quarterly earnings.

[Marc]

I'd love to see the government eliminate every single entitlement program (even for soldiers), just so I can see former Tea Partiers rise up in the socialist revolt.

lol

[geoffrobinson]

I'd love to see the government eliminate every single entitlement program (even for soldiers), just so I can see former Tea Partiers rise up in the socialist revolt.

No one is trying to eliminate them. Just make them sustainable, which is going to be really hard to do given current demographics. The irony is that seniors are making it more likely they will be eliminated by fighting these changes.

[JCO4O1]

lol

That is the biggest problem with entitlements. Once you have them, it is near impossible to get rid of them. The left is very good at turning entitlements into "rights".

It is just plain sad that even reforming these entitlements to make them more sustainable is seen as attacking those people that Paul Ryan is trying to save.

[Marc]

That is the biggest problem with entitlements. Once you have them, it is near impossible to get rid of them. The left is very good at turning entitlements into "rights".

emphasis added.

I think, to be intellectually honest, that should, more broadly, read "politicians". All sides have their bases and constituents that they dare not threaten, jeopardize or otherwise weaken the entitlements thereof.

[JCO4O1]

emphasis added.

I think, to be intellectually honest, that should, more broadly, read "politicians". All sides have their bases and constituents that they dare not threaten, jeopardize or otherwise weaken the entitlements thereof.

While your point sadly has some truth to it... I think generally speaking ending entitlements comes primarily from the right only. Is there anybody on the left calling for the end to any entitlements?

[StrangeTanks]

The problem with entitlements or whatever semantics you use is that you run into a financial vs moral dilemma.

For example assuming your not going to let someone die on the street. Its cheaper to give a homeless person an apartment and food than to deal with the eventual medical costs associated with exposure and malnutrition.

On the other hand you have the moral dilemma, its not fair to give one person food and an apartment while making others pay for it.

This is just a simplified example, don't jump down my throat about drug abuse and bad choices ect.

These are the choices that are being presented to folks. Unfortunately, my opinion is that the republican party is simply putting forth its same old agenda of rigging the system to guide as much wealth as possible towards as few people as possible. Just look at things such as medicare plan b, the drug benefit plan. A plan which strictly prohibits negotiating prices with manufacturers. What a windfall for a few individuals. The examples go on and on.

[JCO4O1]

The problem with entitlements or whatever semantics you use is that you run into a financial vs moral dilemma.

For example assuming your not going to let someone die on the street. Its cheaper to give a homeless person an apartment and food than to deal with the eventual medical costs associated with exposure and malnutrition.

On the other hand you have the moral dilemma, its not fair to give one person food and an apartment while making others pay for it..

You didn't mention the other option, charity. The government is simply too large to know who needs what charity. Smaller, local charities do a much better job. They can tell who is on hard times, and who is milking the system.

[Marc]

While your point sadly has some truth to it... I think generally speaking ending entitlements comes primarily from the right only. Is there anybody on the left calling for the end to any entitlements?

That probably depends on a few definitions--i.e. left, right and entitlement--and one's perspective.

[StrangeTanks]

While your point sadly has some truth to it... I think generally speaking ending entitlements comes primarily from the right only. Is there anybody on the left calling for the end to any entitlements?

Tax breaks to oil companies? Bush tax cuts?

[JCO4O1]

Tax breaks to oil companies? Bush tax cuts?

So keeping more of the money you earn is an entitlement? Fine. That's one entitlement I'm all for.

While I'm against subsidies in general, surely you don't think ending the subsidies for oil companies now will do any good for gas prices. If they can manage to bring gas prices down to $3 I would be all for phasing them out to ease the pain at the pump. Can we get rid of all the green subsidies too... and while we are at it, tax breaks in general? End all of the deductions and lower taxes.

[JCO4O1]

That probably depends on a few definitions--i.e. left, right and entitlement--and one's perspective.

And also the definition of of end, anybody, primarily, from, and the.

[StrangeTanks]

So keeping more of the money you earn is an entitlement? Fine. That's one entitlement I'm all for.

While I'm against subsidies in general, surely you don't think ending the subsidies for oil companies now will do any good for gas prices. If they can manage to bring gas prices down to $3 I would be all for phasing them out to ease the pain at the pump. Can we get rid of all the green subsidies too... and while we are at it, tax breaks in general? End all of the deductions and lower taxes.

Well, I'm sure gas prices could be brought down some in the short term if we decided to subsidize it some more, if thats the goal, might as well just hand out gas vouchers. As for green subsidies...I'm for getting rid of all the subsidies. Stop funding goofy wars to protect oil interests, stop subsidizing ethanol, stop subsidizing construction of nuclear power plants. Let the free market truly provide products and services and let the best provider win.

[StrangeTanks]

Oh back to the topic of Medicare and seniors.

If the government wants to get rid of Medicare and privatize it, I think thats fine. Its a simple solution, you calculate the amount of hard earned dollars that people have put into the system and refund it to them. I don't see why thats such a big deal?

Oh wait...duh...I forgot, the entire federal budget is essentially a giant ponzi scheme designed to take as much as it can and make huge promises. But when it comes to pay the piper the coffers are empty and you get a big ole frowny face in exchange for your investment.

[JCO4O1]

Well, I'm sure gas prices could be brought down some in the short term if we decided to subsidize it some more, if thats the goal, might as well just hand out gas vouchers. As for green subsidies...I'm for getting rid of all the subsidies. Stop funding goofy wars to protect oil interests, stop subsidizing ethanol, stop subsidizing construction of nuclear power plants. Let the free market truly provide products and services and let the best provider win.

I was just pointing out that while I want to get rid of the oil subsidies, doing it now would only increase the problem with gas prices. Obama has started pointing to this because it is a popular position, but getting rid of them certainly wouldn't lower gas prices, it would do the exact opposite. Maybe once the dollar regains value, and we start to allow the oil companies to take advantage of our own natural resources, we can phase out the subsidies.

Oh back to the topic of Medicare and seniors.

If the government wants to get rid of Medicare and privatize it, I think thats fine. Its a simple solution, you calculate the amount of hard earned dollars that people have put into the system and refund it to them. I don't see why thats such a big deal?

Oh wait...duh...I forgot, the entire federal budget is essentially a giant ponzi scheme designed to take as much as it can and make huge promises. But when it comes to pay the piper the coffers are empty and you get a big ole frowny face in exchange for your investment.

That is exactly why we need to phase it out as soon as possible.

[BarryG]

I was just pointing out that while I want to get rid of the oil subsidies, doing it now would only increase the problem with gas prices. Obama has started pointing to this because it is a popular position, but getting rid of them certainly wouldn't lower gas prices, it would do the exact opposite. Maybe once the dollar regains value, and we start to allow the oil companies to take advantage of our own natural resources, we can phase out the subsidies.

It shouldn't have an effect on gas prices, which are priced based on supply and demand. It would only affect oil company profits.