Golf in Arizona

[forkiks]

There's a big chance that your parents, with nowdays immigration policies, would have been presented with 2 options, either go back to their respective countries (and depending of where that was starve to death, be prosecuted, killed or who knows!) or to enter here illegally and, as you pointed out, work hard and offer excellent opportunities for their children.

nope, not the case...that sound like a dramatization. Do you have examples where this has occurred?? Actual examples?
Personally I know people my age as well that came to work legally here and/or go to university within the past 10 yrs. So I don't see what you are dramatizing.

[salf]

I guess the American dream is being here illegally, not paying taxes but sucking the blood out of our social programs; health, education, welfare programs, etc .. as well as raising prison costs.

I see no reasonable defense in allowing persons to enter illegally and remain; while benefiting from these programs and costing US taxpayers serious dollars through said programs.

The 2 groups getting screwed in this mess are tax paying citizens and legal immigrants waiting for legal citizenship.

The 'very menial jobs that not a lot of Americans want to do' that you speak of can easily be corrected ........ Citizens that collect welfare and those that are on unemployment for 3+ months, cut them off and give them the opportunity to do the 'very menial jobs' as you put it. There is enough unemployed in every state to meet these demands.

I know it won't make a difference, even though I think I'll open a thread about it, but for what's worth, can anyone please tell me how illegal immigrants do all that?

I mean, even LEGAL IMMIGRANTS can't benefit from welfare or medicare, so exactly from where do you get this idea?

I'm here on a work VISA, and I pay the same taxes as everybody, and get all the deductions from my paychecks as everybody, but with the difference that I can't benefit from anything that you mentioned. Hell, and I'm legally here!

Granted, I'm here temporarily on a work VISA, lets say for argument that I'm here on a GREEN CARD, which means permanent legal residency (do not confuse with CITIZENSHIP) I still wouldn't be able to take advantage of all that you mentioned, still couldn't vote so have no voice on it, but still pay the same taxes and get the same deductions.........

I would be able to put my kids on public schools though, maybe that's what you meant, right?, but as far as I know the main problem in education isn't exactly that there's not enough schools for everybody, but it's the drop out rate or the low quality of the school system.

As far as healthcare, I haven't been hospitalized just yet (knock on wood) but last I checked there's no such thing as free healthcare in the US, you need insurance, right?

[salf]

nope, not the case...that sound like a dramatization. Do you have examples where this has occurred?? Actual examples?
Personally I know people my age as well that came to work legally here and/or go to university within the past 10 yrs. So I don't see what you are dramatizing.

Sure, I'll open a new thread about it, in the meantime you can take a look at my response on the Mexico's hipocrisy thread.

probably not exactly what you ask, but it helps.

[dukeboards]

The stupidest part of the illegal immigration debate is that the only reason they are "illegal" is because of a mostly arbitrary number we put on legal immigrants. If we raised the quota 100,000 that would instantly be 100,000 fewer "illegals" with exactly the same people here.

And everyone who argues that "my grandparents/parents came here legally", the only reason they came legally is they fit under the number allowed that year. If the number was lower, are you seriously arguing they wouldn't have come?

[forkiks]

The stupidest part of the illegal immigration debate is that the only reason they are "illegal" is because of a mostly arbitrary number we put on legal immigrants. If we raised the quota 100,000 that would instantly be 100,000 fewer "illegals" with exactly the same people here.

And everyone who argues that "my grandparents/parents came here legally", the only reason they came legally is they fit under the number allowed that year. If the number was lower, are you seriously arguing they wouldn't have come?

Well that's cute. Why should we follow any laws of the land then??
How about we focus on changing the laws if needed....and not turn our heads when people are actively breaking the law now. Furthermore, you do not know why or how my parents or any immigrants came here - the point is that they came LEGALLY. And they did things by the book. If you don't like to follow rules and laws in place, either work to change the rules, or move to a country that doesn't have them.

[dukeboards]

Well that's cute. Why should we follow any laws of the land then??
How about we focus on changing the laws if needed....and not turn our heads when people are actively breaking the law now. Furthermore, you do not know why or how my parents or any immigrants came here - the point is that they came LEGALLY. And they did things by the book. If you don't like to follow rules and laws in place, either work to change the rules, or move to a country that doesn't have them.

Exactly my point. The "book" that your parents supposedly followed changes constantly. We regularly reassess and change the number of immigrants accepted.

If we set the maximum number of legal immigrants from Mexico at 100,000 annually, is the 99,999th immigrant a boon to society and the 100,001st an evil monster? What if the 98,437th legal immigrant is a serial killer, and the 102,368th "illegal" is a computer genius?

If we're so concerned about strict adherence to numbers and not actual effect, I assume you all believe anyone driving 56 mph should be stopped and arrested?

[forkiks]

If the 'book' changes constantly, then why do you have an issue?

Nobody is talking monsters and serial killers or a couple 100 over the limit, we are talking doing things as should be done - there is a process....and if the 100,001st individual didn't make it this year, they should have first dibs the next year. How do we know all these illegal immigrants you care about, that they aren't monsters? It's a stupid question to pose in the first place.

[Marc]

And what of the citizen who is, at the least, inconvenienced because Officer Bob thought he had "reasonable suspicion" that the citizen wasn't?

[stankrox]

The airfare seems very reasonable to Phoenix at this time if anyone has an interest to vacation there. Our large golfing group just booked our flights for $298.00 round trip with no stops. Great price.
We usually go to Myrtle Beach and the airfare to there is not much less.

[Kenard]

The stupidest part of the illegal immigration debate is that the only reason they are "illegal" is because of a mostly arbitrary number we put on legal immigrants. If we raised the quota 100,000 that would instantly be 100,000 fewer "illegals" with exactly the same people here.

Dukeboards has this exactly right. The number of people who want to immigrate from Mexico to the US is huge but the immigration quota number is so low that the amount of time it would take to actually enter legally is ridiculous. I don't remember what the actual numbers are but it is something like we only allow 50,000 legal immigrants from Mexico each year. If 2,000,000 people want to immigrate from Mexico to the US that means it would take a person entering the waiting line today 40 years to be admitted to the US!

That is not a reasonable timeframe.