Finally, some love for Germantown

**NickFromGtown** · 01-16-2013, 06:12 PM

And I can't agree more:

Greater Philadelphia's Top 3 Emerging Neighborhoods of 2013 - Neighborhood Rankings - Curbed Philly

Not really sure why West Mt. Airy was considered though. Much of it is already an extension of Chestnut Hill, so I don't exactly know where it is supposed to go.

**Geno** · 01-16-2013, 06:15 PM

Definitely on the way up!

**AsYouWere** · 01-16-2013, 09:52 PM

Appears Emanuel Freeman is on the lam with a pocket full of taxpayer money and they can't sell "his" YWCA yet because he couldn't be served by the Sheriff's Dept.

Germantown YWCA sheriff's sale delayed after building owner couldn't be found

**phillyjd4** · 01-17-2013, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by NickFromGtown

And I can't agree more:

Greater Philadelphia's Top 3 Emerging Neighborhoods of 2013 - Neighborhood Rankings - Curbed Philly

Not really sure why West Mt. Airy was considered though. Much of it is already an extension of Chestnut Hill, so I don't exactly know where it is supposed to go.

Thanks for sharing the link.

What makes West Germantown's comeback even more remarkable is that it was done without the help of a councilperson who did little else but to provide for a chosen few. Coincidence that Germantown's rise occurred with the dismantling of Germantown Settlement and a political change. It's too bad Chelten Plaza was funded and built -- I think the development of that site would be different today and even a few years from now given the desirability of the neighborhood.

**Malloy** · 01-17-2013, 11:01 AM

Next time I hope a credible source says it....this is a sloppy effort by Curbed IMO.

Phoenixville was 'up and coming' 10 years ago. Also, the 'entertainment' component of Phoenixville has really stepped up, but has the housing or demand to live in PVille done as well?

Northern Liberties, Media and West Mt. Airy. What??

Brewerytown. - I'd put Francisville and Point Breeze before BTown.

West Germantown - What are the boundaries of West Germantown? Is that the Tulpehocken historic area? The area just off Wissahickon near EF? Haven't those areas been nice for a while?

**billy ross** · 01-17-2013, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Malloy

Next time I hope a credible source says it....this is a sloppy effort by Curbed IMO.

Phoenixville was 'up and coming' 10 years ago. Also, the 'entertainment' component of Phoenixville has really stepped up, but has the housing or demand to live in PVille done as well?

Northern Liberties, Media and West Mt. Airy. What??

Brewerytown. - I'd put Francisville and Point Breeze before BTown.

West Germantown - What are the boundaries of West Germantown? Is that the Tulpehocken historic area? The area just off Wissahickon near EF? Haven't those areas been nice for a while?

Pretty much agree. However, last night I was going over with a very shrewd investor a bunch of listings in Germantown which he had printed up a month ago but we hadn't gotten around to checking out. 90% of what we were interested in was already under contract. He was shocked. I told him he needs to print up a current list, but generally that much inventory doesn't move mid-winter. Just a few days ago I missed out on a nice piece by underbidding; I didn't want to explore other alternatives until I knew whether I had that one or not. I'm looking forward to seeing whether all of these close, and at what price.

**thoth** · 01-17-2013, 11:36 AM

It seems like most of the areas the considered were already nice. I guess that makes it easier to create a BS list like this and pretend that you have some kind of credibility. Next up and coming neighborhood in NYC: Williamsburg!

Originally Posted by Malloy

Next time I hope a credible source says it....this is a sloppy effort by Curbed IMO.

Phoenixville was 'up and coming' 10 years ago. Also, the 'entertainment' component of Phoenixville has really stepped up, but has the housing or demand to live in PVille done as well?

Northern Liberties, Media and West Mt. Airy. What??

Brewerytown. - I'd put Francisville and Point Breeze before BTown.

West Germantown - What are the boundaries of West Germantown? Is that the Tulpehocken historic area? The area just off Wissahickon near EF? Haven't those areas been nice for a while?

**thoth** · 01-17-2013, 12:24 PM

Not exactly in west Germantown, but not too far off either. Big win for the area, even if it's only senior housing.

Senior housing project features heavy dose of historic restoration

**Malloy** · 01-17-2013, 12:33 PM

Ross: That is good news for sure. I know an investor here in SPhilly and he had similar stories.

Originally Posted by thoth

Not exactly in west Germantown, but not too far off either. Big win for the area, even if it's only senior housing.

Senior housing project features heavy dose of historic restoration

Yes, that place is amazing.

**Geno** · 01-17-2013, 12:56 PM

The are many blocks of smaller rows, twins etc that are just outside of the Tulpehocken Historic district that are on a quiet upswing as teachers, artists etc slowly are rehabbing many of the smaller houses.

**Malloy** · 01-17-2013, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Geno

The are many blocks of smaller rows, twins etc that are just outside of the Tulpehocken Historic district that are on a quiet upswing as teachers, artists etc slowly are rehabbing many of the smaller houses.

Washington to Johnson? Where else? (though, some of those are not exactly small)

**MarketStEl** · 01-18-2013, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by Malloy

Next time I hope a credible source says it....this is a sloppy effort by Curbed IMO.

Phoenixville was 'up and coming' 10 years ago. Also, the 'entertainment' component of Phoenixville has really stepped up, but has the housing or demand to live in PVille done as well?

Northern Liberties, Media and West Mt. Airy. What??

Brewerytown. - I'd put Francisville and Point Breeze before BTown.

West Germantown - What are the boundaries of West Germantown? Is that the Tulpehocken historic area? The area just off Wissahickon near EF? Haven't those areas been nice for a while?

Curbed Philly was channeling Redfin on that post. They're new to the area.

Liz Spikol's been around the block more than a few times. What sources aside from The Inquirer (if them) would you consider credible?

However, I would agree with your placing Francisville and Point Breeze ahead of Brewerytown in the up-and-coming department. But Brewerytown's southern reaches have already been upscaled thanks to their proximity to the Art Museum.

AFA Germantown is concerned: I remarked to billy ross recently that southwest Germantown is "the most charming beat-up neighborhood you ever laid eyes on." He had a more nuanced response to that quip, but his statement can also apply to many outlying Philadelphia neighborhoods. The sharp contrasts one finds from one block to the next amazed me back when I moved here in '83, and they still amaze me. Germantown's more southerly reaches offer many such examples, but Germantown is hardly unique in this department.

I understand that some are still smarting over the loss of the Chelten Avenue Freshgrocer, and as limited-selection, deep-discount supermarket chains go, Save-a-Lot is my least favorite, but what's the problem with Chelten Plaza? It has one of the best coffee shops I've been in in Wired Beans.

Edited to add: NoLibs, Media and West Mt. Airy already happened. They're well past up and coming.

**Geno** · 01-18-2013, 07:35 AM

Many of the blocks just west (unit block, 100, 200 etc) of the vacant Germantown Town hall building around the 14th district HQ. Haines, Price, Rittenhouse and the cross streets McCallum and Green. In and around there. I recently brought property in that vicinity. There are some nice things quietly happening. Those blocks could possibly see a much brighter future. I know Billy agrees very much with my assessment there.

**NickFromGtown** · 01-18-2013, 08:22 AM

I need to look into it more, but I'm pretty sure that this list was determined analytically. In other words, I think they took MLS data and looked at things like days on market, homes sold, and price changes.

**billy ross** · 01-18-2013, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Malloy

Washington to Johnson? Where else? (though, some of those are not exactly small)

Yesterday I bought a house on the 100 block of W. Price Street - I estimate its vintage to be roughly 1820-1850. Back in 2005, when I bought a bunch of derelict Victorian mansions around the corner on Rittenhouse Street, that stretch of Price was so bad that I knew that if prospective tenants took that route to meet me my sale was done, so I crossed my fingers and hoped they didn't take that route. Since then some neighbors did enough work fixing up that stretch of Price that I daresay that it is charming now, although inconsistent. I was so busy with Rittenhouse Street that I didn't have the energy or the resources to deal with Price. Now that I'm pretty much done with Rittenhouse I figured maybe I could take some steps to enhance Price Street. I think that I am very close to getting priced out of that stretch of Germantown, North of Chelten and West of Germantown. There really isn't much dereliction left in that stretch, and my specialty is dealing with dereliction or semi-dereliction. I would say that NW Germantown is in the final stages of the gentrification process, with the section around Wayne Junction in the beginning stages, and the area between the two (Manheim? New Britain? from the old maps) more in the middle of the gentrification process, by which I mean that it's ongoing but not yet inevitible. Tulpehocken Station is inevitable at this point - there's no stopping it, because it has too much momentum behind it. I'm also in love with McCallum Street, and with the family-friendly activities at the Wyck house/estate. If you take your kids to summer camp at Wyck, or to some of their seasonal celebrations there you'll see how many cool families are settling in Germantown. It's heartening for me.

Originally Posted by Geno

Many of the blocks just west (unit block, 100, 200 etc) of the vacant Germantown Town hall building around the 14th district HQ. Haines, Price, Rittenhouse and the cross streets McCallum and Green. In and around there. I recently brought property in that vicinity. There are some nice things quietly happening. Those blocks could possibly see a much brighter future. I know Billy agrees very much with my assessment there.

I concur. That area is still affordable, but not for much longer. Last year my son's teacher (and a former tenant) was smart enough to take my advice and buy a totally rehabbed house on 200 W. Haines for some crazy low price ($139k?) for a clean 3BR house with all new systems, more than big enough to house her family when they come for extended visits. She'll have a great house to live in as long as she wants, with great neighbors, and she'll sell it for much more than she paid for it. Plus, now she has a one mile commute to work, with even less to the trails in the stunning Wissahickon Valley. What more could she ask for?

**Kukla65th** · 01-26-2013, 07:50 PM

Germantown is so underrated even in its current fragmented condition, its unbelievable.

I envy those old enough to remember Germantown firing on all eight cylinders. I hope I live to see that realized again.

Germantown in Chicago or New York...can you imagine what different momentum it may have had by now? Let's hope this is really a meaningful change in direction on a larger scale.

**AsYouWere** · 01-26-2013, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Kukla65th

I envy those old enough to remember Germantown firing on all eight cylinders. I hope I live to see that realized again.

The demise of Germantown can be directly traced to it's incorporation as part of Philadelphia and the creation of Chelten Ave in 1854 as a it's main street. Now that was stupid as we see today.

**Malloy** · 01-27-2013, 12:18 AM

Thx for the reply Geno - interesting stuff.

**toxigal** · 01-27-2013, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Malloy

Washington to Johnson? Where else? (though, some of those are not exactly small)

i am between Washington and Tulpehocken - east side. the big falling down haunted looking victorians at either end of my bock are being renovated. heck, just having the lots cleaned out and the graffiti removed has improved the block immensely!

**MarketStEl** · 01-27-2013, 10:47 AM

Given that Germantown's historic "center" lies on Germantown Avenue just south of Chelten, why was creating the crosstown street a mistake?

Germantown was rather unusual for 18th-century settlements for being highly linear - most of it stretched along its namesake turnpike. In a walking society, that's pretty inefficient. Usually, a crossroads forms and a town nucleus forms around that crossroads. Granted, the presence of the deep Wissahickon Valley to Germantown's west meant there wasn't much "crosstown" traffic in that day.

And IMO what was "stupid" was not creating Chelten Avenue but wasting all those assets that sprang up along it. This street was, and in physical form remains, a "downtown" the likes of which no other Philadelphia neighborhood possesses, though a few have smaller-scale imitations (52d Street, East Passyunk Avenue, Broad-Erie-Germantown - the last of these in far worse shape than any of the others I've mentioned, including Chelten Avenue).