Buying a home in Germantown

[Licious]

I'm considering buying a home in Germantown a few blocks from the Tulpehocken train station and was hoping to get some information on the neighborhood from people who live there.

How safe is the area?

How safe is the Tulpehocken station later at night (8 or 9) for a woman walking home alone?

Where do you see the area headed in the next 5-10 years?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Geno]

I definitely see the area headed sharply upward in the next 5-10 years.

[Malloy]

I definitely see the area headed sharply upward in the next 5-10 years.

Why? it's too nice already to be 'gentrified' and values are pretty reasonable (not way under valued like most areas that see sharp appreciation) I think it's a nice area that will gradually get nicer. Lots of crime north and east. (any crime map will show this)

Good thread on that immediate area: http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...-district.html

[billy ross]

Why? it's too nice already to be 'gentrified' and values are pretty reasonable (not way under valued like most areas that see sharp appreciation) I think it's a nice area that will gradually get nicer. Lots of crime north and east. (any crime map will show this)

Good thread on that immediate area: http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...-district.html

You answered your own question. It's a pleasant area with architecture and history to die for. Yet, it's affordable. For now. As time goes on affordability and value go down as people pay closer and closer to retail. Meanwhile the area 'north and east' becomes more stable.

I noticed recently that the dumpy apartment complex on W. Walnut Lane is now fancy. Very heartening.

[allarevessels]

do it! we bought a place about 5 block south from there this year and we love it...it's laid back, safe, close to public transportation and it's great to be close to the park. I've been trying to tell every person I know that's buying their first house to invest here. I believe we will begin to see more in the way of restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, galleries in the not too distant future.

[NickFromGtown]

Move to Germantown and join the revolution!

There are a number of good areas, specifically Tulpehocken Station District, Penn-Knox, and the "Penn Area" (area around Locust Ave and Magnolia St). Each area has its advantages. Tulpehocken Station District is probably your least risky proposition. Penn-Knox is a charmer, very nice, and positioned for commercial revitalization on Germantown Ave. The Penn Area is a nice area and is/will continue to benefit from things that La Salle University is doing.

[thoth]

Why? it's too nice already to be 'gentrified' and values are pretty reasonable (not way under valued like most areas that see sharp appreciation) I think it's a nice area that will gradually get nicer. Lots of crime north and east. (any crime map will show this)

Good thread on that immediate area: http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...-district.html

North?

[Geno]

I think by east he means south and by north he means east.

[billy ross]

I think by east he means south and by north he means east.

I agree. US 1 runs east-west around these parts, but I still say US1N and US1S. To do otherwise would be silly. I don't use a compass when reckoning direction when it's less confusing to use the grid.

[Speedbump]

I'm considering buying a home in Germantown a few blocks from the Tulpehocken train station and was hoping to get some information on the neighborhood from people who live there.

How safe is the area?

How safe is the Tulpehocken station later at night (8 or 9) for a woman walking home alone?

Where do you see the area headed in the next 5-10 years?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

What's attracting you to G-town? Architecturally it's a wonderland. But for quality of life, even in the nice areas, you would be making a big big sacrifice. And you should also consider how the area is served by it's representation in city council and the legislature in Harrisburg. When SNAP & WIC offices are given higher priority than clean and safe streets, the writing should be on the wall. Had I did my homework better 14 years ago, I would have bypassed Philly for places like Narberth, Media or even West Chester.

[Licious]

What's attracting you to G-town? Architecturally it's a wonderland. But for quality of life, even in the nice areas, you would be making a big big sacrifice. And you should also consider how the area is served by it's representation in city council and the legislature in Harrisburg. When SNAP & WIC offices are given higher priority than clean and safe streets, the writing should be on the wall. Had I did my homework better 14 years ago, I would have bypassed Philly for places like Narberth, Media or even West Chester.

For starters, we are bound to the city for employment reasons. I also prefer to be a part of trying to make this city a better place to live rather than abandon it as most choose to do. The architecture in Germantown is a big draw for me, as well as the amount/type of house you can get for the price. The places you listed, as well as the immediate areas to Germantown (East Falls, Mount Airt, Chestnut Hill etc.) command a much hire price for beautiful 3000+ sqaure foot stone house. Obviously there's a reason those areas come with the higher cost, but I'm curious if people living in the area (Tulpehocken Historic District) feel safe at night, going for a run, walking to the train or even just sitting in their house.

Speedbump, in your 14 years in G'town have you seen any change? Any forces moving the area in a better direction in the future? Personally I have a hard time believing that the area will not improve. It's surrounded by great areas and beautiful architecture, coupled with a movement back into the cities how can it get passed over? I grew up near by in Roxborough and have seen big changes in the Mount Airy area from my childhood to now and see the same for G'town. Am I just being naive as an outsider looking in?

Speedbump, thanks for offering a different prespective.

[billy ross]

What's attracting you to G-town? Architecturally it's a wonderland. But for quality of life, even in the nice areas, you would be making a big big sacrifice. And you should also consider how the area is served by it's representation in city council and the legislature in Harrisburg. When SNAP & WIC offices are given higher priority than clean and safe streets, the writing should be on the wall. Had I did my homework better 14 years ago, I would have bypassed Philly for places like Narberth, Media or even West Chester.

I am this poster's neighbor and I don't share his pessimism. We have an auto safety problem around here, and Speedbump (appropriately named) is working hard to fix it. He claims that he's gotten nowhere. Since we've bought our home ten years ago the city put in a 4 way stop sign at our home. The next block down the city put in a pedestrian crossing. The city also put in a 'playground' sign referring to a fictitious playground at our neighborhood park. Recently the city did what I had thought impossible - they put in 'speed pillows' and milled the street to slow the maniacal drivers on School House Lane. The city retimed the lights to make it a million times easier to turn onto my street and for traffic and pedestrians to cross Henry Avenue. The improvements that the city has made to traffic safety around these parts have been great, with Speedbump pushing all the time for safety and sanity to reign around here. These changes have palpably improved our QOL, but Speedbump will tell you he's making minimal progress. We live between East Falls and Germantown. Where we live used to be Germantown, but when Germantown's star fell our section (Queen Lane Manor) became associated with East Falls. As Germantown heals in - and it IS healing in - I look forward to my home being in Germantown, again, without moving.

[NickFromGtown]

For starters, we are bound to the city for employment reasons. I also prefer to be a part of trying to make this city a better place to live rather than abandon it as most choose to do.

+1

The architecture in Germantown is a big draw for me, as well as the amount/type of house you can get for the price. The places you listed, as well as the immediate areas to Germantown (East Falls, Mount Airt, Chestnut Hill etc.) command a much hire price for beautiful 3000+ sqaure foot stone house.

I love your enthusiasm. My only caution is that while our big homes come at a steep discount in terms of purchase price, their maintenance costs do not. This is not a dealbreaker, but just don't think that a "large" 1,200 sqft rowhome in Manayunk is going be the same on your budget as a 3,200 sqft single in Germantown.

Obviously there's a reason those areas come with the higher cost, but I'm curious if people living in the area (Tulpehocken Historic District) feel safe at night, going for a run, walking to the train or even just sitting in their house.

I live in the Penn Area, which is is probably "less safe" than the Tulpehocken Historic District. With the caveat that I have a higher risk tolerance than most people, I'll offer my thoughts. I walk to and from the train at all hours of the day from Wister and Germantown Stations. I walk back from Broad and Olney sometimes when I don't feel like waiting for the bus after taking the subway. I walk around my neighborhood all the time. Is the neighborhood perfect? Far from it, but its bark is much worse than its bite. I have had a couple smash and grabs with my car over many years, but nothing serious. If you live in a good part of Germantown, your neighbors are likely to be very supportive and invested in their neighborhood. It's easy to make friends and friend watch out for each other.

Speedbump, in your 14 years in G'town have you seen any change? Any forces moving the area in a better direction in the future? Personally I have a hard time believing that the area will not improve. It's surrounded by great areas and beautiful architecture, coupled with a movement back into the cities how can it get passed over? I grew up near by in Roxborough and have seen big changes in the Mount Airy area from my childhood to now and see the same for G'town. Am I just being naive as an outsider looking in?

I am not Speedbump, but I'll chime in here. The renaissance of Germantown has been spoken of for many years, but I will outline some reasons for why I think this is finally the time:

• The secular trend of people returning to the city is in full swing.
• Neighborhoods like Manayunk are so expensive where Germantown is so cheap. You considering the move is a testament to that.
• Ken Weinstein is making big bets on Germantown due to the opportunity he sees.
• Groups (e.g. Post Brothers) who were previously not involved with Germantown see its potential and are making big bets.
• Business owners are starting to take chances on Germantown. It's a small step, but Germantown has gone from having 0 coffee shops to 2 within the past year. Also, Citibank is opening a full bank.
• Donna Reed Miller is no longer our councilwoman.
• Germantown Settlement has finally collapsed and has no effect on us anymore.
• Our new councilwoman, Cindy Bass, is working to restart the Germantown Special Services District.
• PHA's Queen Lane Apartments will be demolished.
• Germantown is being positioned by the City as a place where people from places like Northern Liberties and Fishtown can move to raise their families.

My biggest gripe with Germantown has always been the lack of services, which - correct me if I'm wrong - is probably what Speedbump is most salty about. I don't have the negative outlook that Speedbump does, but my opinion is that the lack of services is by far the worst part of Germantown. Fortunately, this is changing! As I mentioned, we have gone from 0 coffee shops to 2. Fresh Grocer by La Salle is pretty nice. We are starting small, but I expect us to pick up steam. All we need is a good bar/restaurant or two and things will start to accelerate.

[Speedbump]

I am this poster's neighbor and I don't share his pessimism. We have an auto safety problem around here, and Speedbump (appropriately named) is working hard to fix it. He claims that he's gotten nowhere. Since we've bought our home ten years ago the city put in a 4 way stop sign at our home. The next block down the city put in a pedestrian crossing. The city also put in a 'playground' sign referring to a fictitious playground at our neighborhood park. Recently the city did what I had thought impossible - they put in 'speed pillows' and milled the street to slow the maniacal drivers on School House Lane. The city retimed the lights to make it a million times easier to turn onto my street and for traffic and pedestrians to cross Henry Avenue. The improvements that the city has made to traffic safety around these parts have been great, with Speedbump pushing all the time for safety and sanity to reign around here. These changes have palpably improved our QOL, but Speedbump will tell you he's making minimal progress. We live between East Falls and Germantown. Where we live used to be Germantown, but when Germantown's star fell our section (Queen Lane Manor) became associated with East Falls. As Germantown heals in - and it IS healing in - I look forward to my home being in Germantown, again, without moving.

Sad to say I no longer do the auto safety thing. I resigned because I had to parcel out much more time for work and house matters. Also sad to say that what the Streets Dept. is doing with speed cushions and a couple of other half heart measures is really embarrassing in terms of effectiveness and/or planning. While I don't live in Germantown but in East Falls, the bloom is off the rose for us as far as Philly is concerned. We originally planned to downsize at the right age and remain in Philly, but that option seems more and more remote every year. Overall quality of life proportionate to the level and type of taxes paid by workers and property owners does not add up favorably for us. You can enjoy a higher quality of life elsewhere and on a far lower tax bill. And finally, Philadelphia will never improve to the degree for a real significant migration stream of people, taxpayers, industry and jobs into it until there is a seismic shift in the town's political structure.

[NickFromGtown]

Sad to say I no longer do the auto safety thing. I resigned because I had to parcel out much more time for work and house matters. Also sad to say that what the Streets Dept. is doing with speed cushions and a couple of other half heart measures is really embarrassing in terms of effectiveness and/or planning. While I don't live in Germantown but in East Falls, the bloom is off the rose for us as far as Philly is concerned. We originally planned to downsize at the right age and remain in Philly, but that option seems more and more remote every year. Overall quality of life proportionate to the level and type of taxes paid by workers and property owners does not add up favorably for us. You can enjoy a higher quality of life elsewhere and on a far lower tax bill. And finally, Philadelphia will never improve to the degree for a real significant migration stream of people, taxpayers, industry and jobs into it until there is a seismic shift in the town's political structure.

I'm not exactly sure what happened to you that you have become so pessimistic. Philadelphia is an exciting place to be. It doesn't take a lot to see the improvement of our city. And - especially where you live, which I assume is around Fox and Queen - I don't understand what your problem is. What QOL issues are you experiencing exactly that materially differ from the suburbs? Living in the city is a no-brainer when you don't have kids and you sound like you are planning to move out AFTER your kids are no longer in K-12 school.

Interactive Chart: A Look Into Philadelphia Tax Burdens - The Pew Charitable Trusts

If you are frustrated with local politics, that is completely fair. But your last statement is beyond pessimistic, unless you expect EVERY neighborhood in the city to become gentrified. If you are feeling down, have a night out in Center City, Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Fairmount, Bellavista, Graduate Hospital, East West Philly, or Manayunk. They are wonderful places that (most of which) weren't so wonderful not too long ago.

Bringing this back, it's full steam ahead in Germantown. Go team.

[Speedbump]

I'm not exactly sure what happened to you that you have become so pessimistic. Philadelphia is an exciting place to be. It doesn't take a lot to see the improvement of our city. And - especially where you live, which I assume is around Fox and Queen - I don't understand what your problem is. What QOL issues are you experiencing exactly that materially differ from the suburbs? Living in the city is a no-brainer when you don't have kids and you sound like you are planning to move out AFTER your kids are no longer in K-12 school.

Interactive Chart: A Look Into Philadelphia Tax Burdens - The Pew Charitable Trusts

If you are frustrated with local politics, that is completely fair. But your last statement is beyond pessimistic, unless you expect EVERY neighborhood in the city to become gentrified. If you are feeling down, have a night out in Center City, Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Fairmount, Bellavista, Graduate Hospital, East West Philly, or Manayunk. They are wonderful places that (most of which) weren't so wonderful not too long ago.

Bringing this back, it's full steam ahead in Germantown. Go team.

My "problem" is the perspective one gains from nearly sixty years of living and the wisdom to distinguish between a view based on the enthusiasm of youth and the view projected by those who have something to sell you.

Look, I am not here to rain on anyone's parade or douse the flame of passion for a place or an idea, but only to say there is more here than what is only immediately discernable to your senses.

Yes, those neighborhoods you listed as being transformed from either depressed or down at the heels pockets a few decades ago to more lively, livable and fun places is for the most part true. But, this phenomenon is not unique to Philly, cities large and small and to varying degrees have experienced modest revitalizations in the past decade or two for a number of reasons. And their experiences are not uniform, as some have done a better job at this than others. Endemic and central to both continuing and modifying that trend will be a multiplicity of factors that need to come together and help to sustain this momentum. Among them is a recommitment to the central city and former industrial neighborhoods by industry and business. We can't ignore the problems associated with a very large urban underclass with very poor prospects for jobs and a continued unbalanced need for social services. Poor folks can't get jobs if there are not any or enough entry level openings nearby in town for them and companies don't want to locate in an area with high crime and burdensome social ills. How do we get the jobs and job prospects to the poor and how do we convince companies to come here and set up shop and take the risk of settling into a high tax and fairly unsafe environment? We have been dealing with this chicken and egg problem for more than 30 years without any resolution. We can't look to the "Eds and Meds" as being engines of tax revenue, because they are mostly exempt from that by their non-profit status. Mostly, what's collected is the wage tax on the paychecks of their employees and that wage tax is one of the big reasons why a lot of corporations and businesses stay out of Philly. Compounding this is a political structure hopelessly corrupt and focused mostly on maintaining its power instead of meetings it's full set of obligations to the taxpayer and property owner.

We were drawn to this area thirteen years by a constellation of factors, including architecture and proximity to two parks. Our real estate agent played up the "positives" as well. There was talk of a revitalized commercial corridor. The horrid East Falls Project towers had been demolished, a new and good development would take their place and stores and restaurants were coming to Ridge Avenue.

The reality 13 years later is somewhat less rosy. The city's resources are stretched very thinly and we, despite the high cost of feeding the Philly taxman, receive very mediocre municipal services. This does impact your quality of life. We pay relatively high real estate taxes ( going up under AVI) and very high wage taxes and other taxes and fees. When you do your balance sheet and explore other living options, of course you question your real estate decision and choice.

This brings me back to my original point. If you are looking for real value for your hard earned money, then consider ALL the costs of home ownership in a neighborhood and the services rendered by the local government. By doing so, a person is better off in the long run weighing more options instead of allowing themselves to be drawn only to the neighborhood's external bling.

[Speedbump]

For starters, we are bound to the city for employment reasons. I also prefer to be a part of trying to make this city a better place to live rather than abandon it as most choose to do. The architecture in Germantown is a big draw for me, as well as the amount/type of house you can get for the price. The places you listed, as well as the immediate areas to Germantown (East Falls, Mount Airt, Chestnut Hill etc.) command a much hire price for beautiful 3000+ sqaure foot stone house. Obviously there's a reason those areas come with the higher cost, but I'm curious if people living in the area (Tulpehocken Historic District) feel safe at night, going for a run, walking to the train or even just sitting in their house.

Speedbump, in your 14 years in G'town have you seen any change? Any forces moving the area in a better direction in the future? Personally I have a hard time believing that the area will not improve. It's surrounded by great areas and beautiful architecture, coupled with a movement back into the cities how can it get passed over? I grew up near by in Roxborough and have seen big changes in the Mount Airy area from my childhood to now and see the same for G'town. Am I just being naive as an outsider looking in?

Speedbump, thanks for offering a different prespective.

Sorry, if I left you with the impression we are in G-town. We're home-owners in East Falls, adjacent to G-town. We too were drawn to the architecture and diversity of Mount Airy & East Falls. We thought East Falls was also moving in a better direction. It sputters a lot when it comes to living up to it's promise of a village on a river. it's really a shame when you consider the potential for the place. I strongly suspect that new and prospective home owners will be drawn to the "potential" in the future as well.

[billy ross]

...

My "problem" is the perspective one gains from nearly sixty years of living and the wisdom to distinguish between a view based on the enthusiasm of youth and the view projected by those who have something to sell you.

Look, I am not here to rain on anyone's parade or douse the flame of passion for a place or an idea, but only to say there is more here than what is only immediately discernable to your senses.

Yes, those neighborhoods you listed as being transformed from either depressed or down at the heels pockets a few decades ago to more lively, livable and fun places is for the most part true. But, this phenomenon is not unique to Philly, cities large and small and to varying degrees have experienced modest revitalizations in the past decade or two for a number of reasons. And their experiences are not uniform, as some have done a better job at this than others. Endemic and central to both continuing and modifying that trend will be a multiplicity of factors that need to come together and help to sustain this momentum. Among them is a recommitment to the central city and former industrial neighborhoods by industry and business. We can't ignore the problems associated with a very large urban underclass with very poor prospects for jobs and a continued unbalanced need for social services. Poor folks can't get jobs if there are not any or enough entry level openings nearby in town for them and companies don't want to locate in an area with high crime and burdensome social ills. How do we get the jobs and job prospects to the poor and how do we convince companies to come here and set up shop and take the risk of settling into a high tax and fairly unsafe environment? We have been dealing with this chicken and egg problem for more than 30 years without any resolution. We can't look to the "Eds and Meds" as being engines of tax revenue, because they are mostly exempt from that by their non-profit status. Mostly, what's collected is the wage tax on the paychecks of their employees and that wage tax is one of the big reasons why a lot of corporations and businesses stay out of Philly. Compounding this is a political structure hopelessly corrupt and focused mostly on maintaining its power instead of meetings it's full set of obligations to the taxpayer and property owner.

We were drawn to this area thirteen years by a constellation of factors, including architecture and proximity to two parks. Our real estate agent played up the "positives" as well. There was talk of a revitalized commercial corridor. The horrid East Falls Project towers had been demolished, a new and good development would take their place and stores and restaurants were coming to Ridge Avenue.

The reality 13 years later is somewhat less rosy. The city's resources are stretched very thinly and we, despite the high cost of feeding the Philly taxman, receive very mediocre municipal services. This does impact your quality of life. We pay relatively high real estate taxes ( going up under AVI) and very high wage taxes and other taxes and fees. When you do your balance sheet and explore other living options, of course you question your real estate decision and choice.

This brings me back to my original point. If you are looking for real value for your hard earned money, then consider ALL the costs of home ownership in a neighborhood and the services rendered by the local government. By doing so, a person is better off in the long run weighing more options instead of allowing themselves to be drawn only to the neighborhood's external bling.

[billy ross]

I agree with you in that I feel that my commercial salvation will come from commercial development in Germantown and not from East Falls. Keep in mind that I live between both commercial districts. Germantown has the commercial bones that EF doesn't, and the PTB in EF are too wedded to the status quo and hostile to change to allow EF to develop the bones to create a true non-rinky-dink commercial district. EF has historically been subservient to Germantown and the postwar aberration will be corrected. I am writing this from the Germantown Cricket Club, where some of the best Junior squash players in the USA are playing a tournament this weekend. On Sunday we went to Germantown Meeting. Like I said, Germantown has the bones, bones that money can't buy anymore. Sad to say, EF needs a generation of leaders to age out and be replaced with people who hopefully aren't such control freaks if we're ever to fix the riverfront district.

I agree also that we need a two party system in Philly, but I really like Nutter and his administration. This year wage tax resumptions resume.

My "problem" is the perspective one gains from nearly sixty years of living and the wisdom to distinguish between a view based on the enthusiasm of youth and the view projected by those who have something to sell you.

Look, I am not here to rain on anyone's parade or douse the flame of passion for a place or an idea, but only to say there is more here than what is only immediately discernable to your senses.

Yes, those neighborhoods you listed as being transformed from either depressed or down at the heels pockets a few decades ago to more lively, livable and fun places is for the most part true. But, this phenomenon is not unique to Philly, cities large and small and to varying degrees have experienced modest revitalizations in the past decade or two for a number of reasons. And their experiences are not uniform, as some have done a better job at this than others. Endemic and central to both continuing and modifying that trend will be a multiplicity of factors that need to come together and help to sustain this momentum. Among them is a recommitment to the central city and former industrial neighborhoods by industry and business. We can't ignore the problems associated with a very large urban underclass with very poor prospects for jobs and a continued unbalanced need for social services. Poor folks can't get jobs if there are not any or enough entry level openings nearby in town for them and companies don't want to locate in an area with high crime and burdensome social ills. How do we get the jobs and job prospects to the poor and how do we convince companies to come here and set up shop and take the risk of settling into a high tax and fairly unsafe environment? We have been dealing with this chicken and egg problem for more than 30 years without any resolution. We can't look to the "Eds and Meds" as being engines of tax revenue, because they are mostly exempt from that by their non-profit status. Mostly, what's collected is the wage tax on the paychecks of their employees and that wage tax is one of the big reasons why a lot of corporations and businesses stay out of Philly. Compounding this is a political structure hopelessly corrupt and focused mostly on maintaining its power instead of meetings it's full set of obligations to the taxpayer and property owner.

We were drawn to this area thirteen years by a constellation of factors, including architecture and proximity to two parks. Our real estate agent played up the "positives" as well. There was talk of a revitalized commercial corridor. The horrid East Falls Project towers had been demolished, a new and good development would take their place and stores and restaurants were coming to Ridge Avenue.

The reality 13 years later is somewhat less rosy. The city's resources are stretched very thinly and we, despite the high cost of feeding the Philly taxman, receive very mediocre municipal services. This does impact your quality of life. We pay relatively high real estate taxes ( going up under AVI) and very high wage taxes and other taxes and fees. When you do your balance sheet and explore other living options, of course you question your real estate decision and choice.

This brings me back to my original point. If you are looking for real value for your hard earned money, then consider ALL the costs of home ownership in a neighborhood and the services rendered by the local government. By doing so, a person is better off in the long run weighing more options instead of allowing themselves to be drawn only to the neighborhood's external bling.

[midrashist]

I love Germantown more than any other place I've lived. (includes maybe a dozen states). I see a renaissance coming as more and more people who live here try to make improvements. There's a very strong sense of community.
I don't feel as safe as before the economy tanked, but, for a city, I still feel fairly safe. I don't walk a lot at night anymore, but I used to walk home at midnight, as do a number of women I know. (and I live less than 2 blocks from the T. station.)