Valley Green (My Heart Is Breaking)

**pechinbar** · 07-29-2012, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by NCtransplant

Agreed. That picture is amazing and disheartening. These idiots have a huge, negative, what-the-f*$#-are-you-thinking impact on Devil's Pool.
And they also disrupt the area around the Inn. My wife and I were there last Sunday and saw idiot after idiot jumping from the bridge into the creek. They got chased by a ranger, but within minutes went back to their herd-culling behavior. Even by male teenager standards (and I used to have them), what they're doing at the bridge is beyond stupid.
As for the Devil's Pool "family outings" - if your parents bring you there and tacitly endorse the idea that lighting fires is OK, the ground is where you leave your trash, and rocks are something you write on, then the famous line from Ferris Bueller's Day Off is appropriate: "I weep for the future."

This past Wednesday afternoon, elementary and junior high boys were jumping off the bridge into the creek, and there were loads of onlookers (read: little kids entertained by the stupidness and their parents trying to drag them along to wherever they were heading), but I didn't hear any of the adults around telling the kids to stop or any park rangers around...I think in light of the limited number of park rangers and police that can 'camp out' at Valley Green, the adults need to take it upon themselves to tell these kids to stop. As long as the behavior is allowed to continue, these kids are going to continue to bike down during the week and jump off the bridge...probably even after someone gets hurt.

I was wondering what the cost, and impact to the beauty of the surroundings would be if a net was installed under the bridge to prevent jumping into the creek.

**Malloy** · 07-29-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Geno

I run past there fairly often. I don't see all the trash. Trash and grafitti would be a problem, but I don't see crowds of people enjoying the park as "disgusting" like many here are saying. Oh no, poor people! They don't have designer athletic wear. Actually I am more offended by all the "professionals" in their skin tight bike shorts.

Look closer on a weekend summer day.

**dogoagogo** · 07-29-2012, 02:05 PM

I was on the western part of Forbidden drive and the areas around the creek this morning, and didn't see much trash at all. On the east side of Valley Green, and up by the pool, yeah, but there are still places (SHHH!) most people don't go to or know about.

**tintin19119** · 07-29-2012, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry19127

Most of this area should be avoided on hot weekends in the summer. Almost all of these families are Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and Dominicans who are somewhat accustomed to 3rd world conditions . The Wissahickon is cleaner than most of the waterways in their own countries so the threat of high bacteria count etc does not dissuade them...even if you "educated" them, they would still go. It's a culture thing. The same s^^t goes on at Pennypack too. Most of the people are not from the immediate area as the NW is not exactly teeming with Hispanics but the parks are easily accessible from areas where they mostly live.

As far as the need for more wardens, I don't get this. It's not like there are random pow-wows all over the woods. All of the problem people congregate off of Forbidden Drive which is easily accessible to periodic patrol.

You are absolutely correct and they are coming from North Philly.I am not knocking people from North Philly,but the ones that are visiting Devil`s pool.They have no respect for the area.

**Dayman** · 07-29-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Geno

I run past there fairly often. I don't see all the trash. Trash and grafitti would be a problem, but I don't see crowds of people enjoying the park as "disgusting" like many here are saying. Oh no, poor people! They don't have designer athletic wear. Actually I am more offended by all the "professionals" in their skin tight bike shorts.

I have to disagree. There are a lot of idiots bringing lot of trash to the Devil's pool. It's a Puerto Rican thing - they like swimming holes. Combine that with good-ole' Philthadelphianism and you get that combo.

**NCtransplant** · 07-30-2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by pechinbar

I think in light of the limited number of park rangers and police that can 'camp out' at Valley Green, the adults need to take it upon themselves to tell these kids to stop. As long as the behavior is allowed to continue, these kids are going to continue to bike down during the week and jump off the bridge...probably even after someone gets hurt.

People have been hurt (according to one of the wait staff at Valley Green Inn and a ranger that I talked to). But adults telling the kids to stop? I agree it's a good idea, but I can envision a scenario where someone says something to the kids and then becomes the focus of all that teenage testosterone. A couple of weeks ago I was talking with a ranger as she was walking toward the bridge, getting ready to chase them. One of the kids overheard me saying to her "these guys are idiots" and said loudly "it's our lives, old man." Check.

Unless you have extraordinarily good people skills, I think it's best to let the situation be.

**BobsYerUncle** · 07-30-2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by PhillyTex

While the graffiti is probably the work of teenagers, one thing I find especially troubling is that many of the people swimming in the creek, picnicking in the wrong areas, and leaving copious amounts of trash, are whole FAMILIES. I think we all accept some degree of rebellion from kids in their teens, but it's downright disgusting when you see parents raising their kids in this way.

I have to say, the graffiti and trash in Mt. Airy is depressing the hell out of me too. I live near the Mt. Airy Playground, and having to go out along my sidewalk/front lawn after a baseball or football game and pick up other peoples dirty diapers, bags full of fast food waste, and all of the tossed drink containers just makes my blood boil. When I was a kid, if I had thrown a bag of trash on the ground my parents would've swatted me. It just wasn't done. But here, it seems that some parents and children just can't seem to digest the concept of trash cans. Even when there are trash cans EVERYWHERE.

And the fact that the city has stopped paying for streetsweeping or other cleanup services despite the 4% wage tax, the property taxes, and the other fees/taxes just makes it worse. It's part of the reason we're outta here in a month.

**tintin19119** · 07-30-2012, 09:57 AM

H

Originally Posted by NCtransplant

People have been hurt (according to one of the wait staff at Valley Green Inn and a ranger that I talked to). But adults telling the kids to stop? I agree it's a good idea, but I can envision a scenario where someone says something to the kids and then becomes the focus of all that teenage testosterone. A couple of weeks ago I was talking with a ranger as she was walking toward the bridge, getting ready to chase them. One of the kids overheard me saying to her "these guys are idiots" and said loudly "it's our lives, old man." Check.

Unless you have extraordinarily good people skills, I think it's best to let the situation be.

It's kind of hard to talk to the kids when you have families out there ,trashing the place.I seen people in their 30's n 40's acting like fools.

**insolito** · 07-30-2012, 10:39 AM

I wonder if these folks would still swim in Devil's Pool if they knew how much raw sewage was in it. This location is in the city's CSO. That's just nasty.

**stonefly** · 07-30-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by insolito

I wonder if these folks would still swim in Devil's Pool if they knew how much raw sewage was in it. This location is in the city's CSO. That's just nasty.

Cresheim Creek is nowhere near pristine but it is not part of the city's CSO system. The area around Cresheim Creek has separate storm sewers.

**mikerichi** · 08-01-2012, 09:21 AM

I was walking towards Forbidden Drive a couple weekends ago when a SUV filled with at least 9 or 10 people asked me for directions to "Little Puerto Rico." I sent them the wrong way of course.

**Malloy** · 08-01-2012, 10:19 AM

That swimming spot in Pennypack has been called little PR.

Beneath The Surface: Tragedy - Philly.com
Raging Waters Claim Pair Best Friends Ignored Pleas To Stay Out Of Pennypack - Philly.com

**sometimesilie** · 08-01-2012, 11:38 AM

Hate, hate, hate the human dumpsters that wreck Devil's Pool in the summer- it makes me too angry to even go by there. They are not from the neighborhood, for sure.

However, having lived by and dealt w Wissahickon park issues for a # of years it's not just poor inner city folk that behave poorly and trash the park like that, but also some of the most over-privileged, pampered brats in Philadelphia. I know some of you familiar w/the park have had similar experiences. Wealth and educational attainment may have little to do with some people's decision to wreck your park.

**Jim Black** · 08-02-2012, 10:00 AM

There is an article in today's CH Local which describes an increased police and park ranger presence in the Valley Green/Devil's Pool area. 92 warnings were issued on July 8th and 70+ on July 14th.
The Student Conservation Association is the group cited as do the regular clean up at Devil's Pool. Just imagine how bad it would be without them!

This article does not seem to be posted on the Local's web site. You will have to buy the paper to see the whole article.

**tintin19119** · 08-03-2012, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by sometimesilie

Hate, hate, hate the human dumpsters that wreck Devil's Pool in the summer- it makes me too angry to even go by there. They are not from the neighborhood, for sure.

However, having lived by and dealt w Wissahickon park issues for a # of years it's not just poor inner city folk that behave poorly and trash the park like that, but also some of the most over-privileged, pampered brats in Philadelphia. I know some of you familiar w/the park have had similar experiences. Wealth and educational attainment may have little to do with some people's decision to wreck your park.

I been going to the Green since the 70`s and I have never seen this level of abuse.The problem is ,you have adults in their 40`s ,tearing Devil`s Pool up with their kids.I never seen spoiled brats,grill on a rock in the middle of the creek,then toss their trash right in the water. I never seen spoiled brats dropping dirty diapers on the trails. Spray painting on rocks and trees,with adults looking on.

**Worm** · 08-03-2012, 08:56 AM

These people would normally go to wildwood, they are doing staycations this year. Don't worry, once the economy turns around they'll be back on the boardwalk.

**alex** · 08-03-2012, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Black

There is an article in today's CH Local which describes an increased police and park ranger presence in the Valley Green/Devil's Pool area. 92 warnings were issued on July 8th and 70+ on July 14th.
The Student Conservation Association is the group cited as do the regular clean up at Devil's Pool. Just imagine how bad it would be without them!

Does a written warning really make a difference to a person who thinks it's OK to throw trash on the ground?

And I hate it that anyone has to go in and clean up after other people who make a mess.

**Geno** · 08-03-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by tintin19119

I been going to the Green since the 70`s and I have never seen this level of abuse.The problem is ,you have adults in their 40`s ,tearing Devil`s Pool up with their kids.I never seen spoiled brats,grill on a rock in the middle of the creek,then toss their trash right in the water. I never seen spoiled brats dropping dirty diapers on the trails. Spray painting on rocks and trees,with adults looking on.

Ewwwww. I would have to retract my earlier statements then. That IS disheartening.

**raider.adam** · 08-03-2012, 10:07 AM

Sounds like they need a team of people going around grabbing IDs and handing out littering fines. In fact, maybe Council can coordinate and increase fines for littering in the fairmount park system. Make it a $1000 fine, post a bunch of new signs about it and start slapping people with it. When they fight it, negotiate it down to a smaller fine and doing hours of park cleanup service.

Start doing some tough love to change the mindset.