Pestronk Brothers secures $52 million and unions want in...

[DCnPhilly]

Posting from home no big deal. I'm sorry if my comments are vague, I just can't reveal all the details. There was a meeting held with let's say all the parties involved, great progress was made. But you never want to let up what your now doing in case someone is lying to you. Hopefully you can understand that.

Not particularly. Protesting colleagues because they might be lying is about as fruitful as an anonymous promise that something is about to be revealed.

[Beer is good]

Howd the meeting go? Were gonna keep pouring oil on the entrance to your site and slapping your workers until you cave? Regardless of the end result here, the unions are losing power in this town.

Here's just some food for thought. But a true hater won't see this at all. I own a construction site where men are blocking an entrance. Tommorow I want to bring in trucks and equiptment. Maybe tonight I'll pour oil or tar or what ever it is where everyone is standing so they won't stand there tomorrow and I will be able to bring in my equipment. Well it didn't work.

[Beer is good]

Not particularly. Protesting colleagues because they might be lying is about as fruitful as an anonymous promise that something is about to be revealed.

Your 100% correct my friend, i just wish I could tell you more, sorry. Over a cold one I would tell you the whole story .

[eldondre]

I really don't think the five dollars my local give us will ever break our coffers.

especially not given the outrageous rates they charge for projects in the city. good to know they don't give it to the workers though, gotta have slush fund I guess

[DCnPhilly]

Here's just some food for thought. But a true hater won't see this at all. I own a construction site where men are blocking an entrance. Tommorow I want to bring in trucks and equiptment. Maybe tonight I'll pour oil or tar or what ever it is where everyone is standing so they won't stand there tomorrow and I will be able to bring in my equipment. Well it didn't work.

This made me laugh out loud. I honestly don't think Post Brothers are nearly as concerned with what is happening outside the fence as the unions hope. These guys are from the town that invented the organized protest. Do you know how easy it is for them to turn a deaf ear to this noise?

They've made no bones about their commitment to do business their way, and taken that a step further by going out of their way to publicly expose the corrupt Philadelphia system. These don't strike me as the type of guys who'd resort to self-sabotage and Looney Tooneries to make their adversaries look bad. Why bother? The protesters have done this for them. All the Post Brothers have to do is take the high road, let their adversaries make a mockery of themselves , let it blow up in the media, and it will resolve itself on their behalf in the court of public opinion.

[the mule]

Funny because I have it from a reliable source that the Pestronks are now motivated to crush the unions.

I'd be surprised if they took that tack though; sometimes swallowing your ego makes the most business sense. Like I said before on the other thread, the only way they'll solve the union problem is to make a deal with them to at least get some union subs on the job. It's one thing when they're interfering with the demo crew, but once you get more expensive skilled trades in there and more money poured into the project, every delay has that much more impact. It's extortion, no two ways about it, but it's also reality.

[Beer is good]

especially not given the outrageous rates they charge for projects in the city. good to know they don't give it to the workers though, gotta have slush fund I guess

Believe me they give it to us good, and I'm happy for it. You people who hate unions don't have the first clue. At 55 in my union I will be able to retire with lifetime medical for my wife and I. My Father has been dead for over ten years, he retired out of my local and my Mother still receives his survivor pension. I make a very confortable living, own a house in the city and one at the shore. two new cars, sent four kids though catholic school. Like it or not unions have built the middle class in the country. The very people that are struggling from week to week are the same people trying to destroy the unions so you can livein the new world market. Well maybe you should move to China or India, I hear they have a fantastic starting wage and benefit package. Please enlighten the people Eldondre , how much a month do you pay for your benefit plan.

[raider.adam]

Funny because I have it from a reliable source that the Pestronks are now motivated to crush the unions.

I'd be surprised if they took that tack though; sometimes swallowing your ego makes the most business sense. Like I said before on the other thread, the only way they'll solve the union problem is to make a deal with them to at least get some union subs on the job. It's one thing when they're interfering with the demo crew, but once you get more expensive skilled trades in there and more money poured into the project, every delay has that much more impact. It's extortion, no two ways about it, but it's also reality.

Of course all it took was one person to not swallow their ego for Philly to finally build taller than William Penn.

[DCnPhilly]

Believe me they give it to us good, and I'm happy for it. You people who hate unions don't have the first clue. At 55 in my union I will be able to retire with lifetime medical for my wife and I. My Father has been dead for over ten years, he retired out of my local and my Mother still receives his survivor pension. I make a very confortable living, own a house in the city and one at the shore. two new cars, sent four kids though catholic school. Like it or not unions have built the middle class in the country. The very people that are struggling from week to week are the same people trying to destroy the unions so you can livein the new world market. Well maybe you should move to China or India, I hear they have a fantastic starting wage and benefit package. Please enlighten the people Eldondre , how much a month do you pay for your benefit plan.

You might work in a trade and speak Middle Class, but your income and assets speak a different language. You're just proving that the union trade industry doesn't struggle, in fact it excels beyond what their downtrodden protest costumes would lead many to believe. Your income is exceeding those who invest in college educations but you don't have the overhead and debt. Unions found a loop hole to wealth and disguised it in jeans and a hoodie so no one suspects they're as unethical as the 1%. They might show up in a busted pick-up truck, but they live in NJ and DE because it's closer to their beach house. That is not Middle Class.

[Sailaway]

Believe me they give it to us good, and I'm happy for it. You people who hate unions don't have the first clue. At 55 in my union I will be able to retire with lifetime medical for my wife and I. My Father has been dead for over ten years, he retired out of my local and my Mother still receives his survivor pension.

Who pays for this?

[billy ross]

Interesting, I didn't realize that this protest is limited to elevator installation.

You've got knuckleheads, mostly from the Carpenter's Union I think, embarrassing themselves at 12th and Wood. You've also got a pro-union lifelong city resident construction trades union member trying to explain whatever logic there is behind what's going on at 12th and Wood. It's not his union, so he's in the position where he's defending guys whose actions are pretty indefensible and where he's somewhere between the outside and the inside looking at things, but really he's trying to defend his union, not so much the nitwits, because he clearly believes in his union, and not the others as much. Still, he's shedding some light on the situation, filtered as it is through his union and his coworkers in other unions at his jobsite. Then you've got people on this site jumping all over him in the most vicious way, and I just don't get the hate. He's not down there protesting, causing damage, beating people up, or harassing people. He goes to work every day, and he's just trying to explain what's going on. I don't think it's right that people are jumping on the one union guy who is trying to explain the union's point of view, even contorting himself sometimes where you can see that he's not quite on board with the union leadership at 12th and Wood and their actions. He's also willing to give the union guys at 12th and Wood tremendous benefit of the doubt, probably too much in my opinion. People are jumping all over me too, and I am far from a union apoligist, although my dad, uncles, and brother are all or were union guys - my brother is in the painter's union. People need to direct their outrage against the actions perpetrated by the union protesters at 12th and Wood, and not at all union workers or tradesmen. That is my point.

[Beer is good]

You might work in a trade and speak Middle Class, but your income and assets speak a different language. You're just proving that the union trade industry doesn't struggle, in fact it excels beyond what their downtrodden protest costumes would lead many to believe. Your income is exceeding those who invest in college educations but you don't have the overhead and debt. Unions found a loop hole to wealth and disguised it in jeans and a hoodie so no one suspects they're as unethical as the 1%. They might show up in a busted pick-up truck, but they live in NJ and DE because it's closer to their beach house. That is not Middle Class.

So because I didn't invest in college, yet invested in a four and a half year apprenticeship I'm not middle class. The middle class dream has always been to live comfortably and own a vacation home. Unfortunately, the people that invested in 125k in college and are now making 32k as a shore store manager are struggling.

[Beer is good]

Who pays for this?

It comes out of my total package, which is an employer contribution

[DCnPhilly]

So because I didn't invest in college, yet invested in a four and a half year apprenticeship I'm not middle class. The middle class dream has always been to live comfortably and own a vacation home. Unfortunately, the people that invested in 125k in college and are now making 32k as a shore store manager are struggling.

No, what I'm saying is between your salary and assets, you are not definitively middle-class. You're living the dream for sure, but you're living the dream of the upper-class. The middle-class is eroding, and realistically unless you're in an astonishing amount of debt right now, people in the true middle aren't buying beach houses and never will. Most of us dream of owning a home and renting a beach house or going on one nice vacation a year. I mean I congratulate you in your success, but if you're representative of the typical union guy, you clearly demonstrate that they have nothing to complain about.

[Beer is good]

You've got knuckleheads, mostly from the Carpenter's Union I think, embarrassing themselves at 12th and Wood. You've also got a pro-union lifelong city resident construction trades union member trying to explain whatever logic there is behind what's going on at 12th and Wood. It's not his union, so he's in the position where he's defending guys whose actions are pretty indefensible and where he's somewhere between the outside and the inside looking at things, but really he's trying to defend his union, not so much the nitwits, because he clearly believes in his union, and not the others as much. Still, he's shedding some light on the situation, filtered as it is through his union and his coworkers in other unions at his jobsite. Then you've got people on this site jumping all over him in the most vicious way, and I just don't get the hate. He's not down there protesting, causing damage, beating people up, or harassing people. He goes to work every day, and he's just trying to explain what's going on. I don't think it's right that people are jumping on the one union guy who is trying to explain the union's point of view, even contorting himself sometimes where you can see that he's not quite on board with the union leadership at 12th and Wood and their actions. He's also willing to give the union guys at 12th and Wood tremendous benefit of the doubt, probably too much in my opinion. People are jumping all over me too, and I am far from a union apoligist, although my dad, uncles, and brother are all or were union guys - my brother is in the painter's union. People need to direct their outrage against the actions perpetrated by the union protesters at 12th and Wood, and not at all union workers or tradesmen.

Thank you Billy. Being in my union for 25 years has worked out very well for me, I work hard everyday and make a living wage. If people don't like it I'm sorry.

[billy ross]

You might work in a trade and speak Middle Class, but your income and assets speak a different language. You're just proving that the union trade industry doesn't struggle, in fact it excels beyond what their downtrodden protest costumes would lead many to believe. Your income is exceeding those who invest in college educations but you don't have the overhead and debt. Unions found a loop hole to wealth and disguised it in jeans and a hoodie so no one suspects they're as unethical as the 1%. They might show up in a busted pick-up truck, but they live in NJ and DE because it's closer to their beach house. That is not Middle Class.

If you start work at 18 I don't think it's unreasonable to retire at 55, if you're using YOUR pension to retire on. I'm pretty sure the union guys own their own pensions. I have a friend who was working in the electrician's union, and he was able to watch his pension fund go up annually. It was a nice number, and all of the guys seemed to really buy into the idea of owning their pensions. His coworkers were amazed when he quit his job to do his own thing, that he would leave that crazy pension growth behind - his wife said that one thing had to go, and he decided it was better to get rid of his day job and keep his family

The shore house is probably in Wildwood, and he probably paid very little for it - I tried to get my mom to buy one for $40k in 1995. I'm still mad that she bought a trailer in a campground on the mainland instead. My cousin is a retired cop and he owns a shore house in Wildwood. It cost him $12,000, and it didn't have heat when he bought it. It used to be that when you're in the trades you buy a messed-up house and fix it up, so that you're always living in a bit of a dump until decades later you get caught up on it. I admit that the union guys have lost their way of late buying new construction in the suburbs. That's just silly.

[Beer is good]

If you start work at 18 I don't think it's unreasonable to retire at 55, if you're using YOUR pension to retire on. I'm pretty sure the union guys own their own pensions. I have a friend who was working in the electrician's union, and he was able to watch his pension fund go up annually. It was a nice number, and all of the guys seemed to really buy into the idea of owning their pensions. His coworkers were amazed when he quit his job to do his own thing, that he would leave that crazy pension growth behind - his wife said that one thing had to go, and he decided it was better to get rid of his day job and keep his family

The shore house is probably in Wildwood, and he probably paid very little for it - I tried to get my mom to buy one for $40k in 1995. I'm still mad that she bought a trailer in a campground on the mainland instead. My cousin is a retired cop and he owns a shore house in Wildwood. It cost him $12,000, and it didn't have heat when he bought it. It used to be that when you're in the trades you buy a messed-up house and fix it up, so that you're always living in a bit of a dump until decades later you get caught up on it. I admit that the union guys have lost their way of late buying new construction in the suburbs. That's just silly.

Billy, I'm sorry I have to say your wrong about the Wildwood location, I'm in a two bed room home in the Villas.

[jizay]

You people who hate unions don't have the first clue. At 55 in my union I will be able to retire with lifetime medical for my wife and I. My Father has been dead for over ten years, he retired out of my local and my Mother still receives his survivor pension. I make a very confortable living, own a house in the city and one at the shore. two new cars, sent four kids though catholic school.

I hate unions and I definitely have a clue. You just explained why developers don't want to hire you, and you don't seem to get it. There are many people with construction skills who don't have your lifestyle and want work. So, yes, they are willing to work for less. Your union maintains your salary and benefits not because you're worth it, but because they threaten and intimidate anyone who pays less. I am very happy for you no matter how much you make, even if it's millions a year, so long as you make it by creating value. But this incident and many others quite clearly show that you are making money through rent-seeking and extortion and in some cases, outright value destruction. If you were worth what you were paid, your organizations wouldn't have to threaten and assault people into hiring you, it's really that simple.

Enjoy what you've got and what you've done, but know that the next generations of builders won't have it, and it's mostly because your ilk was greedy. Unions are shrinking in this country due to imploding the very industries that employ them (see: autoworkers). Building in Philadelphia is becoming close to impossible. The Pestronks will win, and hopefully others will take their cue. The building trades are already experiencing high unemployment, and that will get worse until eventually they are destroyed. Just a relic of the past in a long, slow death spiral. I know I won't shed a tear.

[billy ross]

Billy, I'm sorry I have to say your wrong about the Wildwood location, I'm in a two bed room home in the Villas.

The Villas is even less 1% than Wildwood. My mom's trailer was at the Acorn campground, at mile 7 on 47. I've been to crab bakes in the Villas.

[billy ross]

Building in Philadelphia is becoming close to impossible? Huh? Are we in a time warp and back in 1975?
There's been more building going on in Philly than in the burbs nowadays (as measured by permits for new construction housing starts).

I hate unions and I definitely have a clue. You just explained why developers don't want to hire you, and you don't seem to get it. There are many people with construction skills who don't have your lifestyle and want work. So, yes, they are willing to work for less. Your union maintains your salary and benefits not because you're worth it, but because they threaten and intimidate anyone who pays less. I am very happy for you no matter how much you make, even if it's millions a year, so long as you make it by creating value. But this incident and many others quite clearly show that you are making money through rent-seeking and extortion and in some cases, outright value destruction. If you were worth what you were paid, your organizations wouldn't have to threaten and assault people into hiring you, it's really that simple.

Enjoy what you've got and what you've done, but know that the next generations of builders won't have it, and it's mostly because your ilk was greedy. Unions are shrinking in this country due to imploding the very industries that employ them (see: autoworkers). Building in Philadelphia is becoming close to impossible. The Pestronks will win, and hopefully others will take their cue. The building trades are already experiencing high unemployment, and that will get worse until eventually they are destroyed. Just a relic of the past in a long, slow death spiral. I know I won't shed a tear.