cars parked illegally on front lawns

**magatoni** · 10-25-2012, 10:53 PM

What to do about this? Neighbors have gone to the 5th...they are friendly and say call 911 (seems like a waste of resources) but they insist so some neighbors have. I'm not sure tickets have been issued though. The cars on the lawns look terrible and bring down the neighborhood. Calls have been made to councilman jones, his representative in our district and to officer Klein.

I believe some neighbors have gone to the offenders as well to ask for consideration. No use.

Anyone have some experience on how to handle this? BTW, 911 said "well, if they live there, it's their property" as if we really wanted to call 911? When proceeding with a description of the illegal manner in which the cars are parked, the operator said "They probably have permission from the owner" huh?
They said they sent a car. Not sure if tickets were issued. thoughts? Are we the only neighbors that think this lawn parking practice is insane?

**PhillyTex** · 10-26-2012, 08:09 AM

It's a nuisance, but I don't know that it's illegal. Where did you get the idea that it's illegal?

**taxgirl** · 10-26-2012, 08:22 AM

The 5th has previously confirmed that it is not illegal per se to park on the lawn but it is illegal to drive across the sidewalk without a legal curb cut to get to the lawn - so they can ticket if they're so inclined. Sadly, they rarely are.

And if you don't think it's a bad thing to park on the lawn, I would invite you to drive down Germantown and look at what's happened to some of those gorgeous homes. One of my neighbors once took a picture of my street and also a section of Germantown Ave and passed them around for comparison. Same housing stock, more or less. Same condition (these were maintained). And yet, the row after row of cars parked on the front yards (some legal, some not) made a huge difference. It was so ugly. It really does destroy the aesthetic of the neighborhood.

**PhillyTex** · 10-26-2012, 02:29 PM

Oh, I certainly *do* think it's a bad thing to park on the lawn, for all the reasons you have stated. I just don't think there's much you can do about it without getting some sort of new city ordinance approved. I guess the city could put in 8" high curbs, but that's a long shot.

I always feel bad for the people who live on the same block as someone with a boat/trailer, or run-down RV, or whatever else, parked out front. As long as the owners either keep it on their property, or keep up the registration/inspection if it's on the street, it's just an eyesore you can't get rid of.

**Hypebeast** · 10-26-2012, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by magatoni

BTW, 911 said "well, if they live there, it's their property" as if we really wanted to call 911?

Sounds about right.

**Burholme06** · 10-26-2012, 04:06 PM

Wow, I've never seen this. Is it a local/neighborhood thing like the double parking is in S. Phila? An an example of this captured on Google maps street view would be enlighteneing - address?

**2happy4u** · 10-26-2012, 06:47 PM

you must call PPA, they love to write tickets.

**the mule** · 10-26-2012, 07:51 PM

You need zoning approval for off-street parking, and they almost certainly do not have this, so it will also be an L&I violation. You can take a look on the new L&I map to check: City of Philadelphia: Map

Good luck getting any enforcement from them on this issue though.

**taxgirl** · 10-26-2012, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by the mule

You need zoning approval for off-street parking, and they almost certainly do not have this, so it will also be an L&I violation. You can take a look on the new L&I map to check: City of Philadelphia: Map

Good luck getting any enforcement from them on this issue though.

L&I has previously taken the position that they will not enforce if it's not a real "parking pad" (basically, paved over) because it's nearly impossible to prove. We've been fighting this issue in the Wissahickon for years. They will, however, enforce if it's made permanent.

**magatoni** · 10-27-2012, 09:07 PM

Nuisance, yes and as mentioned above, it's the manner in which they access the spot (driving illegally on a sidewalk without a curbcut). I know the exact area of germantown that you speak of and it looks horrendous. A one time violation to move furniture or unload heavy material is one thing, but consistently parking there is a whole other issue. BTW, it's a jersey tag. L and I is an interesting angle but man, are they difficult to reach. Taxgirl, have you had any success in Wiss handling this? Thanks for the thoughts.

**forchrissake** · 10-30-2012, 12:11 PM

Or why don't you just man up and TALK to your neighbors instead of relying on authority. If you are afraid to, just write them a note saying it is "bringing down the look of the community" and all that. Put it in their mailbox.

You can make a "light threat," such as, "This has been a problem for a while, it would be kind of you to move, if it isn't moved in X weeks, it may be brought to a higher power."

AND THEN call your local police, not 911. It's not an emergency, foo'.

**taxgirl** · 10-30-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by forchrissake

AND THEN call your local police, not 911. It's not an emergency, foo'.

If you are reporting any infraction to law enforcement - even illegal parking or suspicious behaviors - you have to call 911. This directly from the 5th. They are not equipped to handle complaints directly and will tell you to call 911. It's what it's there for.

**the mule** · 10-30-2012, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by taxgirl

L&I has previously taken the position that they will not enforce if it's not a real "parking pad" (basically, paved over) because it's nearly impossible to prove. We've been fighting this issue in the Wissahickon for years. They will, however, enforce if it's made permanent.

Do they actually enforce it though? Last time I checked there were still plenty of paved over front lawns in Wissahickon.

**taxgirl** · 10-30-2012, 09:15 PM

Yes, they will enforce for paved fronts if there's no permits. It's a battle but they will do it.

**magatoni** · 11-01-2012, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by forchrissake

Or why don't you just man up and TALK to your neighbors instead of relying on authority. If you are afraid to, just write them a note saying it is "bringing down the look of the community" and all that. Put it in their mailbox.

You can make a "light threat," such as, "This has been a problem for a while, it would be kind of you to move, if it isn't moved in X weeks, it may be brought to a higher power."

AND THEN call your local police, not 911. It's not an emergency, foo'.

Dude, did you read the initial post? Neighbors have tried to talk to them. Secondly, as tax girl pointed out to you, 911 is exactly what the city wants you to do.....I agree that it's a waste of resources and not an emergency. Foo'!

**OHenry Heiress** · 11-02-2012, 09:36 AM

You can report to L&I through their website. My mom's neighbors did this because one of the homeowners on their block made their own driveway on their side lawn. Not only did it look like crap but they took up 2 street parking spots by saying it was a "driveway" and no one could park in front of it. L&I DID send them a letter and they stopped for a bit. In the end, they are still doing it but probably because no one took the initiative to re-report them. And some of the neighbors, including my mom, think it's a good thing having 3 of their cars on the side lawn because it leaves more street parking for other neighbors (despite taking up 2 street spots). It really does make the block look trashy though.
City of Philadelphia: Report a Problem

**D-man** · 11-02-2012, 01:28 PM

So, this thread reminds me of a similar issue by my house.

There is a homeowner by me who got Roxborough Towing to put up one of their tow-away zone signs on his "garage". Now, I use the word "garage" loosely, because it is basically a cinder block shed with a garage door that looks too small for a car to fit in. In addition, there is no curb cut or driveway and the owner certainly never parks his car in there. Instead, he just parks on the street in front of the "garage" since all of the neighbors are afraid to park there for fear of being towed. (Indeed, I have seen cars being towed from this spot). In addition, he insists on parking with 2 tires on the sidewalk, so that the 100 year old granite curb is now reduced to gravel.

So, is this allowed? Can anybody have Roxborough Towing (or Lew Blum, or whatever) put up a tow-away sign on anything that resembles a garage in order to save a street spot? I would think that one would to demonstrate that they have a legal curb cut.

**Politburo** · 11-02-2012, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by D-man

So, is this allowed? Can anybody have Roxborough Towing (or Lew Blum, or whatever) put up a tow-away sign on anything that resembles a garage in order to save a street spot? I would think that one would to demonstrate that they have a legal curb cut.

I don't think there's anything to stop you from putting up a 'scare sign'. But IIRC they changed the law so that private tow companies can only tow vehicles that have been cited by police, and police are too busy to cite these vehicles.

**PhillyTex** · 11-02-2012, 02:02 PM

That sounds shady as hell, but doesn't surprise me much. Not really sure where you could start trying to fix that problem.

On a related note, in the Valley there are a few people on every block who think it's cool to park two-cars-deep in the driveway, even though the driveway is only one car deep. So the second car completely blocks the sidewalk all the way out to the curb. So anyone who wants to walk by--joggers, dog walkers, kids, elderly folks, people in wheelchairs--they all have to physically go out into the street get by. It's even worse in snowstorms because the number of ********s who do this usually doubles or triples.

**D-man** · 11-02-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Politburo

I don't think there's anything to stop you from putting up a 'scare sign'. But IIRC they changed the law so that private tow companies can only tow vehicles that have been cited by police, and police are too busy to cite these vehicles.

Thanks Politburo. I would have thought that there was some regulation that the towing companies had to follow, before slapping those ugly-ass signs all over town. The good news is that I don't think the police would ever cite anybody for parking there, because it's not a violation. There is no curb cut, and no driveway.

Originally Posted by PhillyTex

That sounds shady as hell, but doesn't surprise me much. Not really sure where you could start trying to fix that problem.

On a related note, in the Valley there are a few people on every block who think it's cool to park two-cars-deep in the driveway, even though the driveway is only one car deep. So the second car completely blocks the sidewalk all the way out to the curb. So anyone who wants to walk by--joggers, dog walkers, kids, elderly folks, people in wheelchairs--they all have to physically go out into the street get by. It's even worse in snowstorms because the number of ********s who do this usually doubles or triples.

I remember another poster venting about the same problem in Valley area, a while back. The frustrating thing is that if some people would actually use their garage for parking, they would have 2 legitimate off-street spots.