Speeding Cameras for Henry Ave?

[Story]

[O.H. Lee]

Ok, so all the police hang out on Ridge Ave for no reason . . . oh wait, there's a Dunkin Donuts there.

Where do you get your coffee?

[Story]

Mc'D's isn't *too* bad.

[McQ]

Ok, so all the police hang out on Ridge Ave for no reason . . . oh wait, there's a Dunkin Donuts there.

Exactly, they hang out and don't do much of anything. Or you can catch them in the parking lot of Cook-Wissahickon catching a snooze. When was the last time you saw a cop in the 5th actually pull someone over for a traffic violation?

[forchrissake]

[Naveen]

I think the entire stretch of Henry should be covered in cameras. 20-45mph max depending on the area. People WILL slow down.

Totally agree.

[ohhenry]

It's not a question of having the government take care of anyone. It is a matter of enforcing existing laws that are being completely ignored. You obviously do not live on Henry Ave.

[Speedbump]

I wish more folks would attend Community council meetings and get a better handle on just what this community has to deal with. Modern day Henry Avenue is what is because of very short sighted and essentially junk civil engineering & political decisions from the 1950's, 60's & 70's. What was once a relatively pleasant and mostly residential thoroughfare was co-opted into the east bank sister road of I-76 more than 50 fifty years ago. Almost overnight, the problems developed and grew. The quantity of and nature of the accidents grew so bad that in the 1990s, the good people of the community beseeched their government housed in the Second Empire style aviary at Broad & Market for help in enacting a solution. Thus began an almost tragic and prolonged episode of municipal and (state) government essentially ignoring and simply giving lip service to a very serious problem. People have been killed on this road and they sometimes ended their lives on the lawns of Henry Avenue homeowners. The problem persists despite an effort by East Falls Community Council to get something done. Penndot & the Streets Dept. drag their collective feet and are reluctant to employ proven proven methodologies and some concrete re-engineering (literally) to compel and force drivers to speeds within the legal limits. The 39th P.D. has absolutely no intention whatsoever to even begin a sustained campaign of enforcement. Red light cameras have been embraced by mediocre corps of politicians as an easy answer to a complicated problem. That being said, they are ( under the right conditions) effective at compelling many drivers to slow down at intersections. They are absolutely worthless for those long stretches between signaled and non signaled intersections. And what about the other roads with horrendous speeding problems? Survey the residents of Queen Lane and ask us what it is like to try to pull safely out of your driveway with wing-dings and cell phone babbling idiots whizzing by at 50, 60 & 70 MPH to grab that green light morning, noon & night. And to those of you who want to debate the size of government under your respective banners, I say far more important than the relative size and reach is the quality and responsiveness of the government we have. Yes, I agree the current size of big bad Philly municipal government is bloated, corpulent and corrupt and needs paring, but we need to change it to a more democratic and responsive structure before we attempt to shrink it.

[Speedbump]

For a thoughtful reflection and a small sample of "fun times" in the Falls, go here.

[billy ross]

Celebrate the victories. Changing the light timing on Henry has been great. Rebuilding School House Lane in a traffic-calmed manner was a great victory. The new "speed bumps" on Kelly Drive that are gutting people's tires on a regular basis have certainly changed behavior. Ditto the newly exaggerated entry at the beginning of Kelly Drive. now we need to get Henry narrowed to facilitate the missing stretch of bike lanes through the Falls and we'll have scored yet another victory in the name of sanity and life expectancy. The bike lanes end around the Wissahickon Gorge and they pick up again somewhere around US 1. That missing link really needs to be bridged, and in a way that makes that road safer for all, which means turning lanes and single file traffic. The present raceway is causing too many deaths, especially of pedestrians. Henry is one lane northbound at it's incipience (Hunting Park/Allegheny), and I see no Capacity problems there.

At the very least we need a light at Warden to facilitate turns and street crossings and to take pressure off of the intersection at School House Lane, where there is just far too much going on for safety's sake, which explains why there are so many incidents and deaths at that particular location. It is illogical to force so many turns and street crossings to one intersection then to wonder why that intersection is so busy, bewildering, and dangerous.

By the way, yesterday I counted no fewer than five tow trucks waiting like vultures along Kelly and Lincoln Drives, expecting fresh road kill with the wet roads. Despite how obviously they were salivating for a meal, their patience was soon rewarded as the idiots still ignored their obvious presence and smashed their vehicles up; I eventually saw the tow trucks in action.

I wish more folks would attend Community council meetings and get a better handle on just what this community has to deal with. Modern day Henry Avenue is what is because of very short sighted and essentially junk civil engineering & political decisions from the 1950's, 60's & 70's. What was once a relatively pleasant and mostly residential thoroughfare was co-opted into the east bank sister road of I-76 more than 50 fifty years ago. Almost overnight, the problems developed and grew. The quantity of and nature of the accidents grew so bad that in the 1990s, the good people of the community beseeched their government housed in the Second Empire style aviary at Broad & Market for help in enacting a solution. Thus began an almost tragic and prolonged episode of municipal and (state) government essentially ignoring and simply giving lip service to a very serious problem. People have been killed on this road and they sometimes ended their lives on the lawns of Henry Avenue homeowners. The problem persists despite an effort by East Falls Community Council to get something done. Penndot & the Streets Dept. drag their collective feet and are reluctant to employ proven proven methodologies and some concrete re-engineering (literally) to compel and force drivers to speeds within the legal limits. The 39th P.D. has absolutely no intention whatsoever to even begin a sustained campaign of enforcement. Red light cameras have been embraced by mediocre corps of politicians as an easy answer to a complicated problem. That being said, they are ( under the right conditions) effective at compelling many drivers to slow down at intersections. They are absolutely worthless for those long stretches between signaled and non signaled intersections. And what about the other roads with horrendous speeding problems? Survey the residents of Queen Lane and ask us what it is like to try to pull safely out of your driveway with wing-dings and cell phone babbling idiots whizzing by at 50, 60 & 70 MPH to grab that green light morning, noon & night. And to those of you who want to debate the size of government under your respective banners, I say far more important than the relative size and reach is the quality and responsiveness of the government we have. Yes, I agree the current size of big bad Philly municipal government is bloated, corpulent and corrupt and needs paring, but we need to change it to a more democratic and responsive structure before we attempt to shrink it.

[Brooke]

Lincoln and Kelly need dividers all the way down. I'm not a fan of speed cameras but creative ideas otherwise to make people slow down work wonders.

[billy ross]

Lincoln and Kelly need dividers all the way down. I'm not a fan of speed cameras but creative ideas otherwise to make people slow down work wonders.

No. We need to remove the dividers from Lincoln Drive - that is the stretch where there are the most deaths now. We need to add a light at Gypsy Lane, and Lincoln Drive needs to be one lane in each direction the entire way. The stretch which is presently one lane in each direction is not surprisingly the safest stretch. We can either try to accomodate deadly driving or reconfigure our roads so that people stop killing each other. I vote for option B. Lincoln Drive is a 25 mph road. Kelly Drive is a 35 mph road. Neither type of roadway is appropriate for Jersey barriers.

[Brooke]

Yes, I suppose my perspective is that of one who drives very fast on Lincoln and Kelly.

[jslader]

Speed cameras would probably not have as much an effect as redesigning the road. Did anyone note the OP mentioned that it is open to debate whether or not the cameras in DC are improving safety, or how studies have shown similar issues with red-light cameras?

Cameras don't alter behavior, they punish it. That may or may not lead to a change, but a far more effective way would be to change the design of the road. I don't see why it even has to be costly, at least in the beginning. Outside a school at G And Hunting Park Ave in Juniata Park some rather temporary-looking speed bumps have been set up; traffic has slowed as a result. How much would it cost to deploy a series of these things along the worst stretches of Henry Ave? I know, a little unorthodox, outside the box, but it would change behaviors until more effective measures can be installed, like repainting the road.

You can do 40 mph even with a camera. You cannot do 40 over a speed bump, or other traffic-calming measures.