The Main Street Curse- do Main Street restaurant expansions flop more than elsewhere?

[Pitt]

This, too, is an outdated perception.

http://thetomatobistro.com/wp-conten...ST-July-23.pdf

http://www.agiatophila.com/menus/Beer.pdf

Beer «

http://www.bourbonblue.com/pdf/MenuS...lcoholMenu.pdf

http://www.jakesrestaurant.com/images/dynamic/wine.pdf

Menus

That's a lot of good beer within a 1 mile street! And that's not including every restaurant. I'm particularly interested in trying out Agiato again, who recently expanded their seating and menu. Their list of European beers is quite impressive.

As for the prices, they are not dirt cheap, but they're not out of line with the rest of the city. The places I mentioned above all serve good food that is worth the price. There are several places off of Main Street that offer good beer and good food at an very affordable price (i.e. Old Eagle Tavern, Union Jack's Pub). Even Spanky's (formerly Whiskey Dick's), a long time locals hangout, has stepped-up their game and started serving Yards.

Besides the oysters I had at Bourbon Blue, those places would not last within 1 mile of City Hall. Agiato isn't even currently open right now.

What's good are the new places in EF -- East Falls Tavern or whatever it's called, and In Riva. Manayunk has nothing, and I mean N.O.T.H.I.N.G. that compares. If you think Lucky's is good, just take yourself out of the equation. They charge Village Whiskey prices for patties so thin that they don't accept requests for medium rare. $11 thin burgers that come without fries? LOL. Tomato Bistro would not last a single week going against pizza at Stella, Osteria, Mama Palma's, Nomad, or that place on 13th whose name escapes me (Vino or something obnoxious like that?). I'm not paying Center City prices for food that's not any good, and Manayunk is loaded with it. Union Jack's is inconsistent and the food isn't even good enough to be considered a gastropub. Sometimes you get a Le Bus roll (good), sometimes you get an Amoroso roll (sucks), and they don't have the common courtesy to tell you when they're out of the good stuff. The fries are great and the beer is alright but the place just doesn't put in an effort, and to top it off, the beer list is only OK and the place is cash only.

You didn't mention the only 2 places that would last against real competition -- the Thai place and Angelina and Josephine's Sandwiches (the only place to get Sarcone's rolls up there). I haven't tried the Turkish place. The ice cream and frozen yogurt places are good, but I've never had bad ice cream or frozen yogurt. I haven't tried the Han Dynasty there either, just the one in Center City.

[D-man]

Thank you for your opinion.

Why does every restaurant have to be a Starr or Vetri place? Besides, I was referring to your post where you said the beer scene on Main St "blows". In response to that I posted a numbers of places that have above average beer lists. That is also why I did not mention Chabaa Thai or Angelo & Josephine's because neither of them serve beer. I did, however, mention Jake's/Cooper's which consistently gets high ratings from Craig Leban. Given the list of CC restaurants that you rattled off, it appears that you rely only Leban reviews to judge good restaurants.

Nowhere did I compare Tomato Bistro's pizza to Osteria. I was speaking strictly to the beer list. IMO Osteria has the best flatbread pizza around. In Riva and Coopers come close. Stella, not so much.

Going back to my original post, I said Manayunk does not need to be a restaurant destination for the entire city. There are plenty of people from the surrounding neighborhoods who enjoy the pleasant atmosphere, good food and drink, shopping and it's relative ease to get to. I enjoy Village Whiskey as much as the next guy, but I don't want drive to CC or take a train every weekend when I want to have a nice dinner with my wife. Instead, I can walk to Main St. and choose from a number of restaurants (and bring my own bottle if I want Thai or Chinese).

The places you listed are the best in the city. There are plenty of other place that are still very good.

Union Jack's is a neighborhood corner bar. Has been for over 15 years. That you would compare it to a CC gastropub is laughable. I mentioned it because they have a good - but small - rotating tap list. They also have good wings but they haven't updated the menu in years. It is what it is - a good neighborhood bar with good pub food. I'm not inviting people from East Passyunk to come up and try the aioli.

[Pitt]

Thank you for your opinion.

Why does every restaurant have to be a Starr or Vetri place? Besides, I was referring to your post where you said the beer scene on Main St "blows". In response to that I posted a numbers of places that have above average beer lists. That is also why I did not mention Chabaa Thai or Angelo & Josephine's because neither of them serve beer. I did, however, mention Jake's/Cooper's which consistently gets high ratings from Craig Leban. Given the list of CC restaurants that you rattled off, it appears that you rely only Leban reviews to judge good restaurants.

Nowhere did I compare Tomato Bistro's pizza to Osteria. I was speaking strictly to the beer list. IMO Osteria has the best flatbread pizza around. In Riva and Coopers come close. Stella, not so much.

Going back to my original post, I said Manayunk does not need to be a restaurant destination for the entire city. There are plenty of people from the surrounding neighborhoods who enjoy the pleasant atmosphere, good food and drink, shopping and it's relative ease to get to. I enjoy Village Whiskey as much as the next guy, but I don't want drive to CC or take a train every weekend when I want to have a nice dinner with my wife. Instead, I can walk to Main St. and choose from a number of restaurants (and bring my own bottle if I want Thai or Chinese).

The places you listed are the best in the city. There are plenty of other place that still very good.

Union Jack's is a neighborhood corner bar. Has been for over 15 years. That you would compare it to a CC gastropub is laughable. I mentioned it because they have good - but small - rotating tap list. They also have good wings but they haven't updated the menu in years. It is what it is - a good neighborhood bar with good pub food. I'm not inviting people from East Passyunk to come up and try the aioli.

I like places LeBan wouldn't even review, much less rave about if he did. When I read a review of his he always has people judging out-of-region food for him since he apparently isn't confident in his own palate. If it's Thai, he'll mention the thoughts of his friend who joined him from Thailand. If it's KC bbq, he'll say it didn't pass his Kansas City friends' tests. I don't respect his opinion for that reason. It's supposed to be his review, not his friends'.

You can only judge a place on what it's trying to do.

Lucky's doesn't try to do as much as a place like Villiage Whiskey, Prohibition Taproom or the Spotted Pig ripoff on 17th Street whose name escapes me, but that doesn't stop them from charging similar prices for thin burgers without even including any sides. It's an OK place to drink until the sun goes down and turns into a frat party.

Tomato Bistro's beer list is good but if the food's not worth the price what's the point of going since it's a restaurant rather than a bar? There's, what, 15-20 places who attempt something similar in Center City and immediate surrounds? All but one that I've tried do it better than Tomato Bistro. It's not Osteria, of course. But it's not even Mama Palma's or that old place on Walnut. The pies remind me of that big elevated place by Penn with all the taps at 37th Street. Nice place, acceptable beer list, and food that can't compete in its genre in this town.

You may think a 30 min train ride is too far to travel for good food that costs the same as the mediocre food you're eating, but if I lived in Manayunk I'd consider it a trip well worth my time. You live in Manayunk because good food isn't a priority to you, which is fine, but it is to me. If I did live in Manayunk I'd at least go to East Falls, which is killing it with Falls Taproom and In Riva. Tomato Bistro charging what In Riva charges is absolutely laughable considering they're trying to do the same thing. It's like paying major leaguers the same as minor leaguers.

[B]Cooper's[B] is good, but it's not worth the $28 plates whatsoever. I wasn't aware Jake's and Cooper's refereed to the same place, which is why I didn't address it in my previous post. Plus it's stuffy in there. Restaurants are supposed to be fun these days. I felt like I was in the Prime Rib.

I've been in Manayunk a lot lately and done most of the restaurant scene. It's just not good. What is good is almost always available cheaper in Center City. I've seen a lot of progress on Main Street since I was last there 4 years ago but it still has a ways to go. It would be nice if this gastropub I was told about delivers. Manayunk needs it.

[Malloy]

I like thin burgers - going to check out Lucky's soon!

[philly57]

You may think a 30 min train ride is too far to travel for good food that costs the same as the mediocre food you're eating, but if I lived in Manayunk I'd consider it a trip well worth my time. You live in Manayunk because good food isn't a priority to you, which is fine, but it is to me.

I'm trying to come up with a response here, but wow, your comment is just so ridiculously ignorant. You don't know me. You don't know D-man. You don't know anyone here. So how could you possibly make such a dumbass statement? Are you really that ignorant that you think foodies can ONLY live in certain neighborhoods? To hell with your budget, lifestyle, where you work, or your family... Or that we have no other priorities or responsibilities in life that we can travel 30 min for dinner.

A 30 min train ride for good food may not be a hassle for you, but for the 9-5 set (especially those who don't work in the city), the last thing we feel like doing is going downtown on a random Tue night for a dinner "because Main St isn't good enough for our sophisticated palates". My wife and I go out out almost exclusively in CC and the surrounding neighborhoods. But during the week or on some Friday nights, we like having the option of Main St. If you think it's mediocre, then that is certainly your prerogative.

And to echo D-Mans post, it is ridiculous to try to compare any neighborhood's restaurant offering with CC. I don't think Manayunk even pretends to be a regional draw, beyond the surrounding neighborhoods and some nearby suburbs. Nobody is expecting people from CC, South Philly, or Fishtown to eat at Agiato, et. al.

Your entire post was mind boggling. I don't know anything about you, but you come off as a stuck up, arrogant, ignorant, immature food snob. Eating good food is great, but it's certainly not life's priority. When you grow up, maybe you'll realize that.

[Pitt]

I'm trying to come up with a response here, but wow, your comment is just so ridiculously ignorant. You don't know me. You don't know D-man. You don't know anyone here. So how could you possibly make such a dumbass statement? Are you really that ignorant that you think foodies can ONLY live in certain neighborhoods? To hell with your budget, lifestyle, where you work, or your family... Or that we have no other priorities or responsibilities in life that we can travel 30 min for dinner.

A 30 min train ride for good food may not be a hassle for you, but for the 9-5 set (especially those who don't work in the city), the last thing we feel like doing is going downtown on a random Tue night for a dinner "because Main St isn't good enough for our sophisticated palates". My wife and I go out out almost exclusively in CC and the surrounding neighborhoods. But during the week or on some Friday nights, we like having the option of Main St. If you think it's mediocre, then that is certainly your prerogative.

And to echo D-Mans post, it is ridiculous to try to compare any neighborhood's restaurant offering with CC. I don't think Manayunk even pretends to be a regional draw, beyond the surrounding neighborhoods and some nearby suburbs. Nobody is expecting people from CC, South Philly, or Fishtown to eat at Agiato, et. al.

Your entire post was mind boggling. I don't know anything about you, but you come off as a stuck up, arrogant, ignorant, immature food snob. Eating good food is great, but it's certainly not life's priority. When you grow up, maybe you'll realize that.

He insists Manayunk has a lot of good, well-priced food. I say it doesn't.

I'm no foodie - I just prefer to avoid places whose food, atmosphere, and service aren't congruent with the price. Obviously being from NY + living in Center City for so long has raised the bar for me but there's not much I can do about that. It's not like I need Vetri every night but I do expect a fair price for what I'm getting and I find that a rare occurrence in Manayunk.

You're taking my evaluation personally, like you're the one cooking it or something LOL. Calm down, Mr. Sensitive. My neighborhood is butt ugly and there's no denying it, but I don't get my balls in a twist when people ask if a bomb went off there. It is what it is. Why would I care? Why do you?

And eating good food at a fair price is certainly a life priority to me and lot of other people. So is living among public transportation, diverse culture, a good gym with a pool, and living within a quick drive to the shore. How immature of me.

Do you really want me to start listing things that are a "life priority" to the Manayunk crowd?

[Malloy]

Btw Lucky's burgers were good. Will return

[mixiboi]

Btw Lucky's burgers were good. Will return

You should be a food critic....

[Debbie1125]

Do you really want me to start listing things that are a "life priority" to the Manayunk crowd?

I wait with bated breath to hear Pitt's predictable listing.

[Malloy]

You should be a food critic....

Ah yes, I forget we are living in the Yelp age where every opinion of a food establishment must be a 16 paragraph entry. ;-)

[philly57]

Do you really want me to start listing things that are a "life priority" to the Manayunk crowd?

Please indulge us.

[Zep]

I heard Yanako (the new sushi place) is very good, and the interior is incredibly well done. I've heard nothing but good things about Lucky's, and Agiato is one of my favorite places to eat in Philadelphia (not just Manayunk). Cooper's is always decent and while not located directly on Main St. Deke's on Shurs is amazing and more than worth the walk (or quick drive) up Shurs. Couple that to the well knowns like Han Dynasty, Chaaba Thai, and Bourbon Blue and I'm not sure what else one could possibly want for this area.

Pitt sounds like someone with an axe to grind, but to each their own I guess.

[purplesachi]

I heard Yanako (the new sushi place) is very good, and the interior is incredibly well done.

I've been to Yanako just once, and the interior really is beautiful. i think the prices are a little steep for the sushi, but the quality of the food that i got was outstanding. i definitely think they need to work out the kinks still...service could be improved (our server neglected to tell us all of the specials, which i had overheard another server tell an adjacent table), and a lot of the items on the menu were not available (i'd say about 8 things were not available). that being said, i'm pretty excited yanako opened on main street and i'll probably return. (note, there's a $3 corkage fee for byo, at least there was when i brought sake in for dinner)

[Zep]

I've been to Yanako just once, and the interior really is beautiful. i think the prices are a little steep for the sushi, but the quality of the food that i got was outstanding. i definitely think they need to work out the kinks still...service could be improved (our server neglected to tell us all of the specials, which i had overheard another server tell an adjacent table), and a lot of the items on the menu were not available (i'd say about 8 things were not available). that being said, i'm pretty excited yanako opened on main street and i'll probably return. (note, there's a $3 corkage fee for byo, at least there was when i brought sake in for dinner)

Good to know.