Neighborhood Secession

[Mondu]

In 1854, most of the independent communities northwest of Center City were incorporated into the City of Philadelphia, including Roxborough, Manayunk and Falls of Schuykill (East Falls). By most accounts, the move was seen as positive by the people involved. I wonder if a time will come in the future when these or other areas attempt to become independent again. It seems like many of the modern issues neighborhoods face regarding police, fire, libraries, taxation, schools and traffic are made intractable because all the decisions on these items have to come though the city bureaucracy. On the other hand, there are many benefits to consolidation such as the purchasing power wielded by such a large entity and a bigger voice at the state and federal levels.

I'm interested in what other people here think about this. Also, if the citizens of a neighborhood pushed for this, what's the political process involved? Is there a precedent in the state of Pennsylvania?

[MrsWeisass]

I would vote for staying in Philadelphia... I know there are downsides, but the upsides outweigh them in my view.

[eldondre]

I'd think it would be much harder to secede as the northeast did, than to unconsolidate (which would leave a system of boroughs, townships, and county)...not that I see either as likely. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the psd dissolved completely and replaced with local systems based on the old townships and boroughs.

[gren]

The city and county being coterminous would make it more difficult than it happening somewhere else in PA.

[PhilaCap]

THE NORTHEAST ATTEMPTS TO SECEDE FROM THE CITY, 1985

Top 100 Philadelphia Moments: #100 to #76 - Philadelphia Magazine - phillymag.com

[Naveen]

The interesting thing to me about complaints about City Hall and who controls what, boils down to middle-class flight from the city. If the middle-classes hadn't fled the city in the 50's thru 70's, it wouldn't have set-up the current political structure in many American cities. The middle-class ceded control of cities by leaving them. Conversely, as more middle and upper-middle class people choose to make the city home again, city government is bound to change. As I've said in other places, the change is happening in Philadelphia, but we haven't reached the tipping point yet. (That said, I realize certain things could happen in the short-run that might reverse the trend of the past couple of decades.)

It seems to me the most effective thing to do is push for a redistricting of the City Council borders. There is no reason for the Northwest to be split into the 4th and 8th districts the way it is now.

[feetmonkey]

For those of us who have residency requirements for our employment, neighborhood secession is a bad idea.

[thegreattwizz]

THE NORTHEAST ATTEMPTS TO SECEDE FROM THE CITY, 1985

Top 100 Philadelphia Moments: #100 to #76 - Philadelphia Magazine - phillymag.com

Thank you. This list cost my employer two hours of productivity today.

[the mule]

It seems to me the most effective thing to do is push for a redistricting of the City Council borders. There is no reason for the Northwest to be split into the 4th and 8th districts the way it is now.

That'll be the day. Look at the 5th and 7th districts. I don't know how anyone could have kept a straight face when drawing those boundaries.

[Jayfar]

It seems to me the most effective thing to do is push for a redistricting of the City Council borders. There is no reason for the Northwest to be split into the 4th and 8th districts the way it is now.

That'll be the day. Look at the 5th and 7th districts. I don't know how anyone could have kept a straight face when drawing those boundaries.

Didn't they just recently finish re-drawing re-gerrymandering the council districts?

[ArcticSplash]

Didn't they just recently finish re-drawing re-gerrymandering the council districts?

Yes because the City Charter says if Council doesn't do it, they don't get their paychecks.

A long gerrymander battle 10 years ago led to Rick Mariano being left in a personal cash crisis which ultimately led to his prosecution because a buddy of his paid him a kickback, which Mariano used to pay off his AMEX.

The new map is less gerrymandered than the old one.

[Mike D]

Might not be the worst of ideas. Germantown has a wonderfully design town hall that never got to be used correctly used.

[lewblum]

For those of us who have residency requirements for our employment, neighborhood secession is a bad idea.

I think it all boils down to this. The NW is home to many city employees.

[Gladys]

The interesting thing to me about complaints about City Hall and who controls what, boils down to middle-class flight from the city. If the middle-classes hadn't fled the city in the 50's thru 70's, it wouldn't have set-up the current political structure in many American cities. The middle-class ceded control of cities by leaving them. Conversely, as more middle and upper-middle class people choose to make the city home again, city government is bound to change. As I've said in other places, the change is happening in Philadelphia, but we haven't reached the tipping point yet. (That said, I realize certain things could happen in the short-run that might reverse the trend of the past couple of decades.)

It seems to me the most effective thing to do is push for a redistricting of the City Council borders. There is no reason for the Northwest to be split into the 4th and 8th districts the way it is now.

Are you assigning blame? So white people cannot complain about city hall because it's there fault because they left.

well this is why the northeast tried to leave and why it's people left according to that article quoted from philly mag.

Unable to shake that gnawing sense that City Hall didn’t give a **** about them, the working-class whites who over four decades had built the Northeast into one of the most economically stable sections of the city began a steady exodus to the ’burbs,

so now it may be the same in reverse. apparently most people like to live in the same color pallet. I look forward to their being true diversity in philadelphia where no one race is in the majority. Or better yet it wouldn't matter because race was no longer an issue in politics. yeah never gonna happen.

[eldondre]

Are you assigning blame? So white people cannot complain about city hall because it's there fault because they left.

well this is why the northeast tried to leave and why it's people left according to that article quoted from philly mag.

Unable to shake that gnawing sense that City Hall didn’t give a **** about them, the working-class whites who over four decades had built the Northeast into one of the most economically stable sections of the city began a steady exodus to the ’burbs,

so now it may be the same in reverse. apparently most people like to live in the same color pallet. I look forward to their being true diversity in philadelphia where no one race is in the majority. Or better yet it wouldn't matter because race was no longer an issue in politics. yeah never gonna happen.

the quote doesn't say they left because of race, it says they left because of poor city services in exchange for high taxes...and that the people leaving were white

[Bob_Head]

Might not be the worst of ideas. Germantown has a wonderfully design town hall that never got to be used correctly used.

And a ****e tax base. Big commercial and industrial property underwrites a lot of the expense of residential services. Your town hall is empty for a reason.

[Joeolney]

This sums up nicely what I have though Philly mag thinks of the Northeast "the amorphous blob of rowhomes, shopping centers and not much else known collectively and simply as “The Northeast”"

Does anyone know why the bill to create Liberty County died?

[Naveen]

Are you assigning blame? So white people cannot complain about city hall because it's there fault because they left.

Who's talking about white people? I said middle-class.

[thegreattwizz]

Does anyone know why the bill to create Liberty County died?

Because it is preposterous, Philadelphia would never give up the income from the NE, and all of those with residency requirements would balk. My old place is in Somerton; I've never encountered a PPD officer with a rank lower of Sgt on patrol, and regularly see some top dogs in the neighborhood.

[3rd&Brown]

I would think this would be nearly impossible. It's not as if these areas aren't partly responsible/accountable for legacy costs within the city (pensions, prisons, etc). Those costs carry forward into the future. You can't just announce you quit and walk away from that stuff. While I get where the motivation comes from, I think there are ways (as eldondre points out) to localize services within particular areas etc to provide autonomy within the confines of remaining in the city.

I wish there were more autonomy in sub-sections of the School and Police Districts. For example, if the Center City District were a subzone of the School District with some autonomy, it would have some freedom to amp up curriculum development since most of it's schools are relatively high functioning at this point (ditto for the NW). Whereas with Police Districts, perhaps officers would be encourage to enforce QOL issues more (writing tickets for trash, etc) in regions of the city where crime is a (relative) non-issue. This would be particularly effective, IMO, in parts of far South and NE Philly, as well as, again, in the NW. As things work now, everyone sort of marches to the beat of the same drummer, so things that are overlooked in Kensington are also overlooked elsewhere, when perhaps they shouldn't be.