Dog park coming to East Falls?

[dukeboards]

It would be nice if the players did a better job of self-policing and cleaning the area after they are done if there are a few that want to trash it.

I agree. And would apply the same to dog owners as well.[/QUOTE]

And I would apply the same to:

Wing Lee customers
dunkin donuts customers
Parents and kids at the park/rec center
People waiting for the bus
People fishing on Kelly Drive
picnickers on West River
Regatta attendees/competitors
People'walking to/from the train
Etc, etc, etc

[dukeboards]

You'll get no argument from me there. I have a photo in my phone of a dog walker who thought noone was looking and left a gift on my neighbor's lawn. He cursed me out when he saw me taking the photo. I saw him Monday walking the dog down IQL. Far too many dog owners are animals themselves.

People who are slobs and don't care about others are that way whether they have a dog or a kid, both or neither. When my dog goes I not only pick up after him, but i also look around to see if there are other people's I can get with the same bag. How many non dog owners walk around looking to pick up other people's trash? Don't try to paint dog owners as different from people in general.

[billy ross]

People who are slobs and don't care about others are that way whether they have a dog or a kid, both or neither. When my dog goes I not only pick up after him, but i also look around to see if there are other people's I can get with the same bag. How many non dog owners walk around looking to pick up other people's trash? Don't try to paint dog owners as different from people in general.

I feel that I've been surprisingly dog owner friendly on this thread. My point is that every group/community has miscreants. However, I believe that wherever the dog Park in EF goes the dog owners will self-police. I feel that social pressure will be exerted to maintain sanitation and safety. I already see it happening and I think institutionalizing the dog park will enhance the lines of communication.

This is exactly what isn't happening with the basketball players, and that's why I'm not a fan of the basketball courts. Change that dynamic and I'll be pro-basketball courts. Guns and constant trash when others always clean the park = antisocial. EF is not an antisocial community.

[NotInMyBackyard]

Fast on the heels of the negotiations with the PWD to minimize the detrimental effects to our street from the new security fencing, lights, and the stormwater management bump outs, we are now facing another issue …a group of people in our community are looking for places to put a new fenced in dog park. One of the options is on the PWD property on Queen Lane.

I am very much opposed to installing a dog park on Queen Lane. I think the best way for me to express my views is to relate the story of the dog park that was installed in our old neighborhood in Fairmount just a few years ago. This case actually went to court to be resolved.
The area outside the Eastern State Penitentiary was very much like ours—across the street from the houses was a low stone wall with a grass field. Neighbors used the area for playing with their dogs, and soon the idea of a fenced in dog park developed. Money was raised, and the park was installed. All was well, until…..

▪ In a short time, all of the lawn in the field was gone, leaving a field of dirt and mud. The grass could not hold up to the running dogs and urine.

▪ Crowds became a problem. The park became more and more popular, being used by more than just the people in the adjacent community. Eventually, the site was posted online, on a dog park locator website, alerting everybody of the dog park. It was now a regional destination and was crowded from sunrise to sunset.

▪ Parking became a problem. People from all over the city and beyond brought their dogs in their car to the park. Professional dog walkers brought groups of dogs to spend hours in the park.

▪ Noise became a problem. From sunrise to sunset, there was the sound of dogs barking, dog fights, owner fights, and a significant increase in traffic.

▪ Odor became a problem. Especially in the summer, the urine soaked dirt baked in the sun and the smell was overwhelming. Mulching the area did not help. People also walked their dogs up and down the street before taking them into the park, so the residents had to deal with the excrement in front of their house.

▪ Trash became a problem. The waste baskets quickly filled with dog poop and, even in plastic bags, smelled horrible. The baskets were often overflowing onto the ground. No one took responsibility for the daily emptying of the trash cans.

The neighbors who once voted for the dog park were now suffering the consequences. They had to hire an attorney to address their issues. Luckily for them, the judge did decide in their favor and agreed that the dog park was a nuisance to the neighborhood. The park was closed, and the neighborhood returned to normal.

Don't let this happen to us. This is not about our love of dogs and their right to have a place to play. I like dogs. I have a dog. This is an issue that, combined with the recent PWD security measures, will adversely affect our quality of life and our property values. I'm not sure where on the street they are planning to put the park, or if they have decided yet, but we should all stick together to make sure none of us will be the unlucky homeowner across the street.

The Dog Park Committee is meeting next week and asked for community input. Please help me to encourage the Committee to select a location for the dog park that is not near people's houses.

Contact the Committee before Tuesday June 12 at eastfallsdogpark@gmail.com or on facebook.com/EastFallsDogPark and tell them NO to a dog park on Queen Lane.

Thank you.

[Mike D]

I'm sorry that you feel that way. While I do think other options may work better, the whole NIMBY about the Queen Lane site that is already a dog destination just grind my gears. It reminds me of the whole McMichael Park playground legend. (I was not here for that but the manner with which that is discussed sickens me as well.)

[Phillyfoodie]

A dog park is a fine idea, however it should be located away from residences .....I agree with the post about the PWD site - it's fine as an informal gathering spot....but it's not appropriate in that location. there are lots of under-utilized commercial related sites in East Falls that could benefit....that 's the job of the committee. Anyone can propose McMichael Park or the Queen Lane site - just because they're there and convenient, but neither location would benefit from a dog park.

[Naveen]

McMichael actually seems ideal to me, though I can't say I'm an expert. It feels centrally located enough and most importantly big enough. You could have a fenced off dog park that wouldn't interfere with the rest of the park. I don't see enough people there to think a dog park would crowd people at all either.

Plus...it's already a park. Anyone who owns a house nearby can't justifiably complain because they already bought a house by a park. OTOH, for those who bought along the reservoir, turning the PWD site into a dog park can be regarded as...unexpected.

[dukeboards]

McMichael actually seems ideal to me, though I can't say I'm an expert. It feels centrally located enough and most importantly big enough. You could have a fenced off dog park that wouldn't interfere with the rest of the park. I don't see enough people there to think a dog park would crowd people at all either.

Plus...it's already a park. Anyone who owns a house nearby can't justifiably complain because they already bought a house by a park. OTOH, for those who bought along the reservoir, turning the PWD site into a dog park can be regarded as...unexpected.

There was a huge, divisive battle several years ago over putting a playground in McMichael and I don't think anyone wants to revisit that.

I'm not sure why a dog park at Queen Lane would be unexpected. It's already used as one, just not fenced in. I don't think it's an ideal location because of the slope, but neighbors can't really claim to be shocked it is being considered. By the way, the only person I've ever seen deliberately leave their dog's poop behind at the reservoir lived directly across the street.

[Naveen]

There was a huge, divisive battle several years ago over putting a playground in McMichael and I don't think anyone wants to revisit that.

Yeah, I've heard some of the stories surrounding McMichael. i just threw it out there as an "ideal", might have been pointless to do so since it is a non-starter.

By the way, the only person I've ever seen deliberately leave their dog's poop behind at the reservoir lived directly across the street.

LOL.

[billy ross]

There was a huge, divisive battle several years ago over putting a playground in McMichael and I don't think anyone wants to revisit that.

I'm not sure why a dog park at Queen Lane would be unexpected. It's already used as one, just not fenced in. I don't think it's an ideal location because of the slope, but neighbors can't really claim to be shocked it is being considered. By the way, the only person I've ever seen deliberately leave their dog's poop behind at the reservoir lived directly across the street.

The dog walkers won the battle, though.

Assuming that a dog park would bring traffic to an area, perhaps a desolate area which would benefit from traffic would be a good spot for a dog park? EF can get desolate at its fringes. I'm thinking 4400 Ridge Avenue, for instance. Or the triangle of land at Ridge and Scott's. Both are walkable from our commercial core and adding activity at either location would help the commercial core. Both have at least some parking availability, too. This may be sacrilege, but the Rock Garden isn't heavily used, either, although it's probably not flat enough.

With so much of EF being Fairmount Park (two of our four borders, roughly 2.5 linear miles, if you only include one streambank per stream), there should be a chunk of park which could or would work that the neighborhood can get behind. Curtis is very proud that he basically controls Fairmount Park (almost all of the Wissahickon and the East Park and the West Park are in his district, going all the way down to Girard Avenue), and he's hot to monetize the park and convert it into tax base without ruining or diminishing the park, because he knows that the city needs cash to be able to deliver the services he wants to deliver. If Curtis could be convinced that adding a dog park would firm up the city's tax base and translate into more $ for the city, and be done in such a way that it enhances the park rather than diminishes it, he'd be behind it. Dog parks do seem to draw gentrification, which is good for the city's tax base.

[Malloy]

A dog park is a fine idea, however it should be located away from residences .....I agree with the post about the PWD site - it's fine as an informal gathering spot....but it's not appropriate in that location. there are lots of under-utilized commercial related sites in East Falls that could benefit....that 's the job of the committee. Anyone can propose McMichael Park or the Queen Lane site - just because they're there and convenient, but neither location would benefit from a dog park.

Million dollar homes, right across from a dog park:
https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...d=0CJ8BEPwSMAA

$500k ++ homes right across from a dog park:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=seger...181.44,,0,4.59

$500k ++ homes right across from a dog park:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=phill...77.67,,0,-5.44

[CHIOSSO]

Dog worshipers.

[Phillyfoodie]

The planning of a dog park takes a certain amount of due dillegence - which means not just identifying an open parcel of land and claiming it being ideal for a dog park.
There are inherent functions that need to be planned for like: parking, lighting, fencing, maintenance, parcel size, will there be enclosures for small dogs and large dogs? What should the turf be...grass will be ruined and turned into a mud hole in very short time. Water being on site would be essential for exercising. Analysis of the parcel is also important - is it currently a passive contemplative space or are there other activites associated with the space.

Places like McMichael park are very special given that they're very few open spaces that large in our community, and to locate a dog park there would really be a very short sighted decision....it's very much like adding a dog park to Rittenhouse Square - which is a space used by the resident's. There was a major controversy about locating a kids playground in McMichael Park - and in my opinion, the concerns were justified. No one is creating anymore open space, and it's important to preserve what's there.

Dog parks tend to be noisy and, if a proper maintenance plan is not provided, can be very dirty, smelly and unsightly. It's just the nature of the function. There are many unused parcels that can be potential sites that are not adjacent to residences or in passive open park spaces. Identifying, analyzing and planning are required....as well as consensus building, fund raising, sponsorship, building/construction and having a maintenance plan.

[mm230]

Dog parks tend to be noisy and, if a proper maintenance plan is not provided, can be very dirty, smelly and unsightly.

So are my neighbors. Unfortunately, the landlord lives in the burbs & doesn't seem to really care about his " contribution" to our street!

[phillycat]

By the way, that description of what happened to the dog park in Fairmount is not very accurate at all. Still, it was probably too small for as popular as it became.