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  1. #41
    Colin P. Varga is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickleDimer View Post
    MLK has some pretty huge mature trees that are causing all those bumps in the trail, that's not necessarily the case on the Tow Path. There are no such issues on the Kelly Dr side and only a few bumps from shawmont to Conshy.
    There are a few bumps from Shawmont to Conshy? It will need to be repaved! Now, imagine that trail, add flooding, tree roots and the standard of just pavement aging then and that would be the Tow Path but without the intrinsic nature of the Tow Path.

    The railroad always cut trees near the RR bed and that is why there is no problem with tree roots on that part of the trail. Also, Kelly Dr. for the most part doesn't have the trees so close to the paved trail. The exceptions might be across from the Grant statue and around the PMA.

    The Tow Path is a semi-primative area with mostly natural growth. Changing the environment (removing trees) just to pave the Tow Path would take away from the character of what the Tow Path is today and has been for the last 200 years. It was never a RR bed as was the trail from Shawmont to Conshy. Possibly a "new" character would be better for people wishing to avoid puddles, and cyclists that want to decrease their time from MYK to Shawmont. Other than these two enhancements to the "quality" of life I doubt the City or the general population will want to invest money in a project in a flood plain unless there is a plan to control flooding and run off from ROX. Then I think the question to finding a source of revenue for paving and flood control is obvious... MYK needs a casino. Or maybe they could put it where the old pumping station was in Shawmont?
    Last edited by Colin P. Varga; 10-28-2011 at 11:11 AM.
    Goodnight Rossana Arquette whereever you are.

  2. #42
    Colin P. Varga is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickleDimer View Post
    What kind of trees are along there? Mainly huge sycamores, right?

    I am looking forward to Colin P Varga's versions of other "historically correct" infrastructure planning. Dirt sidewalks and streets, steam engine regional rail, etc. His theory is that it's too hard, complex and costly to make things easier to use. Thhat's the kind of half-arsed thinking that can make an area obselete.
    Historically correct? You might want to check with the Friends of the MYK Canal:


    Friends of the Manayunk Canal is dedicated to the protection, restoration and preservation of the natural and historical resources of Venice Island, the Manayunk Canal and Fairmount Park's Towpath in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
    Home | Friends of the Manayunk Canal



    Me, personally: Let's see, I thought bringing back the trains to Ivy Ridge was a good idea. When they replaced the 100 year old water main Umbria I thought that was a good idea. Getting rid of cobblestone streets in MYK? Mixed feelings. Paving is probably safer for people speeding, but were people really speeding on the cobblestones? Cobblestones don't seem to need much maintenance though... mixed feelings. Against, steam rail in MYK because of health effects from breathing coal dust. MYK musta been hell in 1900 with so many the trains (passenger and frieght) belching smoke along with the glass, metal, paper, factories, etc. However, not against steam rail in general but in the right place, which is the same for paving the Tow Path. Not against paving trails but against paving something which without flood control and runoff control from ROX will be a constant drain of money and effort. For cyclists it would be better to keep the bike lanes on Umbria clear but where is the money for that?

    The natural setting of the Tow Path I think is a blessing to an area that is largely paved anyway. More pavement isn't what MYK needs for enhancement.
    Goodnight Rossana Arquette whereever you are.

  3. #43
    PPandR is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by farther_closer View Post
    Wait a minute, am I reading this right? Does this mean they will be PAVING over the gravel on the towpath???
    Hi There:

    I work for Philadelphia Parks & Recreation and I just want to assure you that the towpath is NOT going to be paved. The gravel that is on the towpath presently is going to be removed and replaced with crushed stone. There will be porous asphalt at the bridge approaches. The four bridges located along the towpath are being removed and replaced so you should definitely NOT use the towpath while it is under construction.

    If you have any more questions regarding this project or any of the other upcoming construction projects in this area, I'd be happy to answer them openly in the forum.

    Regards

  4. #44
    NickleDimer is offline Senior Member
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    The trail floods in other areas pretty regularly. There doesn't seem to be much catastrophic damage from it as you would have us believe.
    I think the having a continuous well maintained trail would be an asset to the city. Moreso than the semi-primative historical mud bog that you're getting all hot and bothered about. It's safer, too.

  5. #45
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    It seems that the brand-new stretch of the SRT above the Falls Bridge flooded very recently; there was a crew there today building some kind of monument base / tombstone at the parking lot and it looks as if they had scraped that section of the trail clean. I'll try to pay more attention to it

  6. #46
    NickleDimer is offline Senior Member
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    b_r,
    I was up on that stretch twice recently, after the flooding. It was completely undamaged and leaps and bounds better than it used to be. Colin P. Vargo would have predicted utter destruction. Luckily he was not consulted on the design.

  7. #47
    Colin P. Varga is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickleDimer View Post
    b_r,
    I was up on that stretch twice recently, after the flooding. It was completely undamaged and leaps and bounds better than it used to be. Colin P. Vargo would have predicted utter destruction. Luckily he was not consulted on the design.
    I'm fine with paving trails. The recreational trail along Kelly Dr. has been stabilized, the Tow Path is not. Again, flood control will be needed for any future plan of paving on the MYK Canal. Since there is no current plan to pave the trail on the Canal (please see the post from PPandR) why don't you organize one? But don't nickel and dime it.
    Goodnight Rossana Arquette whereever you are.

  8. #48
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    Yeah pave the planet it's the solution to everything. Tear down historical buildings, put up modern monstrosities. Pave Forbidden Drive. Pave the effing river!

    Some people simply don't "get it" I guess.

  9. #49
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by farther_closer View Post
    Yeah pave the planet it's the solution to everything. Tear down historical buildings, put up modern monstrosities. Pave Forbidden Drive. Pave the effing river!

    Some people simply don't "get it" I guess.
    Here in East Falls Scott's Run has been paved (Scott's Lane). Mifflin Run has been paved (Midvale Avenue), too. I'm looking forward to seeing some daylighting happen - I think that eventually to solve the flooding problems along the Wingohocking in East Germantown they'll need to daylight it to allow a place for the water to build up safely instead of drowning people in their cars, as happened at the end of the summer.

    Keep in mind that at one point Kelly Drive was supposed to continue over the Manayunk Canal as the East River Expressway. Thank God that didn't happen.

  10. #50
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    I guess I'm in the dark, what's "daylighting" mean?

  11. #51
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by farther_closer View Post
    I guess I'm in the dark, what's "daylighting" mean?
    Come out of the dark. Find the daylight. It's fundamentally healthy.

  12. #52
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    I'm now out of the dark, I thought you were using it as some sort of an engineering term regarding water management.

  13. #53
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by farther_closer View Post
    I'm now out of the dark, I thought you were using it as some sort of an engineering term regarding water management.
    It is. It means de-culverting streams, bringing them back into the daylight. See Saylor's Grove.

  14. #54
    NickleDimer is offline Senior Member
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    Not sure where anyone wanted to pave the planet. Though if the region considers bicycle travel a part of the future of the city's transit system (as it has indicated by the explosion of bike lanes), it would make sense to have a continuous consistent surface on one of it's longest, most traveled bike trail rather than the current paved trail, busy street, mud, busy street, paved trail.

    I'm personally not interested in debating whether it would be too much work or too costly or what type of pavement is historic enough for the towpath.

  15. #55
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickleDimer View Post
    Not sure where anyone wanted to pave the planet. Though if the region considers bicycle travel a part of the future of the city's transit system (as it has indicated by the explosion of bike lanes), it would make sense to have a continuous consistent surface on one of it's longest, most traveled bike trail rather than the current paved trail, busy street, mud, busy street, paved trail.

    I'm personally not interested in debating whether it would be too much work or too costly or what type of pavement is historic enough for the towpath.
    "Originally conceived of by the Fairmount Park Commission, the (Schuylkill River) trail route grew to include many municipalities. Montgomery County constructed the trail from the Philadelphia City line to Valley Forge National Historical Park. The Chester County Department of Parks and Recreation is currently planning the section between Phoenixville and Pottstown. The Schuylkill River Greenway Association is working on the sections from the Montgomery County line to Birdsboro and from Gibraltar into Reading. And finally, the Schuylkill River Development Corporation is managing the trail construction from the Water Works in Philadelphia's Fairmount Park and along the tidal section of the Schuylkill River, known as Schuylkill Banks. The Schuylkill River Greenway Association has detailed maps of each section along with construction up-dates on their website."

    Schuylkill River Trail - Valley Forge to Philadelphia | Pennsylvania Trails | TrailLink.com

    Philly got the idea of taking the footway from the Art Museum to the Falls Bridge and formalizing it as a destination and a transportation corridor. It talked Montgomery County into turning the old Pennsy ROW into a part of this trail. However, the trail from the beginning of the Pennsy rail-trail to the Falls Bridge was never formally connected. Just recently the trail was completet up to the mouth of the Wissahickon. Still from Shawmont to and over the crick there is a missing link. I don't believe that it will follow the Towpath. I don't believe it will follow the Pennsy ROW either, although both are being improved. I personally believe that it will follow the Reading (?) ROW along Venice Island. That's why the trail is interrupted and has been so since its inception. When the railroad stops using the ROW on VI, then that land will be available to complete the trail, and I think that funding will very quickly be found to complete this vital missing link.
    Last edited by billy ross; 11-03-2011 at 05:58 PM.

  16. #56
    Colin P. Varga is offline Senior Member
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    Completing the trail on VI? OK, but the RR ends at JeffersonSmurft right? How would it link to Shawmont? Then the question is: Is there really a need for two trails along the MYK Canal?

    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    "Originally conceived of by the Fairmount Park Commission, the (Schuylkill River) trail route grew to include many municipalities. Montgomery County constructed the trail from the Philadelphia City line to Valley Forge National Historical Park. The Chester County Department of Parks and Recreation is currently planning the section between Phoenixville and Pottstown. The Schuylkill River Greenway Association is working on the sections from the Montgomery County line to Birdsboro and from Gibraltar into Reading. And finally, the Schuylkill River Development Corporation is managing the trail construction from the Water Works in Philadelphia's Fairmount Park and along the tidal section of the Schuylkill River, known as Schuylkill Banks. The Schuylkill River Greenway Association has detailed maps of each section along with construction up-dates on their website."

    Schuylkill River Trail - Valley Forge to Philadelphia | Pennsylvania Trails | TrailLink.com

    Philly got the idea of taking the footway from the Art Museum to the Falls Bridge and formalizing it as a destination and a transportation corridor. It talked Montgomery County into turning the old Pennsy ROW into a part of this trail. However, the trail from the beginning of the Pennsy rail-trail to the Falls Bridge was never formally connected. Just recently the trail was completet up to the mouth of the Wissahickon. Still from Shawmont to and over the crick there is a missing link. I don't believe that it will follow the Towpath. I don't believe it will follow the Pennsy ROW either, although both are being improved. I personally believe that it will follow the Reading (?) ROW along Venice Island. That's why the trail is interrupted and has been so since its inception. When the railroad stops using the ROW on VI, then that land will be available to complete the trail, and I think that funding will very quickly be found to complete this vital missing link.
    Goodnight Rossana Arquette whereever you are.

  17. #57
    PPandR is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    I don't believe that it will follow the Towpath. I don't believe it will follow the Pennsy ROW either, although both are being improved. I personally believe that it will follow the Reading (?) ROW along Venice Island. That's why the trail is interrupted and has been so since its inception. When the railroad stops using the ROW on VI, then that land will be available to complete the trail, and I think that funding will very quickly be found to complete this vital missing link.
    The SRT follows the Towpath southbound to Lock Street, then follows Main Street to Kelly Drive. It does not enter Venice Island. The work that is being done on Venice Island is a PWD project.

  18. #58
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPandR View Post
    The SRT follows the Towpath southbound to Lock Street, then follows Main Street to Kelly Drive. It does not enter Venice Island. The work that is being done on Venice Island is a PWD project.
    The section along the towpath is not a regulation trail - it isn't paved, and it isn't wide enough, and the turns are too sharp. There are no plans to deal with this; the Manayunk Canal Towpath won't be the long-term cartway of the Schuylkill River Trail. Many sections of the Schuylkill River don't have the trail in place yet and have ad hoc solutions in place until the permanent path of the trail can be figured out - this is an evolving situation.

    The latest plans I heard of were to continue the trail behind the movie theater on Main Street and over the Penncoyd Bridge to follow the West Bank of the river up to the foot of Venice Island, then to jump back across the river and to follow Venice Island. I know that the work happening on VI now isn't part of the SRT; the section I'm talking about isn't funded yet, and there are many obstacles which may be overcome before it can be put into place, not least of which is getting across the Wissahickon Creek, which is the next step.

    If you can't ride a bicycle safely on it, it isn't the Schuylkill River Trail.
    Last edited by billy ross; 11-04-2011 at 03:03 PM.

  19. #59
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    runinbrynmawr is offline Senior Member
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  20. #60
    qguy is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by runinbrynmawr View Post
    Where is this? Gotta caption for this photo?

 

 

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