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Thread: Gangsta holds gun sideways, Gun jams, Shot dead

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    Rain7128's Avatar
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    Default Gangsta holds gun sideways, Gun jams, Shot dead



    As police chased Raymond "Ready" Martinez through Times Square on Thursday, the street hustler and aspiring rapper fired two shots, holding the gun sideways "like a character out of a rap video." According to the New York Post, Martinez's side grip caused the gun to jam, enabling police to shoot and kill the suspect. What's the point of holding a gun sideways?

    To look Hollywood, of course. Journalists and gun experts point to the 1993 Hughes brothers film Menace II Society, which depicts the side grip in its opening scene, as the movie that popularized the style. Although the directors claim to have witnessed a side grip robbery in Detroit in 1987, there are few reports of street gangs using the technique until after the movie came out. The Hughes brothers didn't invent the grip, though. In 1961's One-Eyed Jacks, Marlon Brando used it, as did Eli Wallach in 1966's The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Directors may prefer the style because it makes it easier to see both the weapon and the actor's face in a tight camera shot.

    While the New York Post reported that Martinez's side grip caused the gun to "stovepipe"—that's when the spent casing gets caught in the ejection port, jamming the weapon—it's unlikely that the horizontal orientation caused the failure. In theory, tilting a gun sideways—90-degrees counter-clockwise for a right-handed shooter—means that gravity works against the ejection of the spent casing. As a practical matter, however, gravity is so weak compared to the force of the ejection that jamming is no more frequent in the sideways position than in the customary one. The more likely cause of the jam was Martinez's choice of weapon and ammunition. The MAC-10 is prone to stovepiping—a problem that's exacerbated by the use of hollow-point bullets, which may become deformed and scrape the inside of the barrel, or underpowered ammunition, which can slow the slide and throw off the mechanism's timing.

    While the side grip does not increase the risk of stovepiping, it is terrible for aim. It's extremely difficult to properly use the top-mounted sight on a handgun that is turned sideways. Not that this matters much to the average street criminal. According to an FBI study, 60 percent of them don't even use the sight. Aiming a gun sideways has long been shorthand for risky, indiscriminate shooting. The title character in George Washington Cable's 1894 novel John March, Southerner, exclaims, "No man shall come around here aiming his gun sideways; endangering the throngs of casual bystanders!"

    During the first half of the 20th century, soldiers used the side grip for the express purpose of endangering throngs of people. Some automatic weapons from this era—like the Mauser C96 or the grease gun—fired so quickly or with such dramatic recoil that soldiers found it impossible to aim anything but the first shot. Soldiers began tilting the weapons, so that the recoil sent the gun reeling in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, enabling them to spray bullets into an onrushing enemy battalion instead of over their heads.

    Nowadays, the only time professionals use the side grip is while holding riot shields, which limit their field of vision. Turning the gun and raising it up make the sight slightly more visible.

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    Pity pity.
    "Accept the fact that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue"

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    MAC-10s and Tech 9s may look badass, but they're piece of **** guns.

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    I always hold my AK sideways when I fire it.
    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete
    Drawn only to be washed away
    For the time that I've been given
    I am what I am


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    I think it's kinda cool actually. Let the trained professionals do it the right way, and let the criminals enjoy their lack of accuracy and spent cartridges in their faces. Plus if one were to use and kind of self defense technique

    (not that I would, if you want something that I have to give you and not shooting me what it takes, then it's all yours no problem. if I don't have anything left to give but my life, then that's a different story)

    the criminal has done half the work of turning and putting the arm and a really precarious angle..

    but all in all I encourage any wrong-doer who uses a gun to hold it at the side. Please use crappy guns and inappropriate ammo for the gun.
    "Form follows function - that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union." - Frank Lloyd Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khonos View Post
    I think it's kinda cool actually. Let the trained professionals do it the right way, and let the criminals enjoy their lack of accuracy and spent cartridges in their faces. Plus if one were to use and kind of self defense technique
    Unfortunately they end up shooting senior citizens and kids before their intended target. Or, they hole up some cars and front doors.

    re. MAC10 I thought they are reliable?? They sure are ugly and carry the ghetto stereotype, but a .45ACP 'pistol' that fires that fast is kinda cool Of course, you may have a hard time hitting your target...but I do OK with a suppressed 10 w/30rnd mag. I always though the majority of 'MAC10s' on the street were 9mm.
    Last edited by Malloy; 12-16-2009 at 11:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malloy View Post
    Unfortunately they end up shooting senior citizens and kids before their intended target. Or, they hole up some cars and front doors.

    re. MAC10 I thought they are reliable?? They sure are ugly and carry the ghetto stereotype, but a .45ACP 'pistol' that fires that fast is kinda cool Of course, you may have a hard time hitting your target...but I do OK with a suppressed 10 w/30rnd mag. I always though the majority of 'MAC10s' on the street were 9mm.
    Originally chambered for .45ACP -- later variants were made in 9mm and .380. I've always heard of it described as a POS weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cerberus413 View Post
    I always hold my AK sideways when I fire it.
    LOL!
    You a bad mutha!
    "Accept the fact that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue"

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    Real Mac-10, 11 and M-11/M-12s are very, very reliable guns. They are not the most accurate and you can really only use ball ammo (golden sabers also work in the M-12; don't know about the others.)

    The Tec-9 and all it's derivatives and variants are true pieces of sh!t. They are very poorly made. The barrel will be shot out after a couple hundred rounds because Intratec used very soft metals and don't do heat treatment. They jam every three or four rounds. Also, they cannot use hollow points of any kind. I would love it if these were handed out to criminals.
    The fundamental difference between modern liberalism/progressivism and most other similar ideologies is that liberalism seeks to make everyone equally mediocre, while other ideologies seek to make others equally excellent. In other words, liberalism/progressivism rewards the worst of the worst, whereas other ideologies rewards those who actually care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain7128 View Post
    What's the point of holding a gun sideways?

    To look Hollywood, of course. Journalists and gun experts point to the 1993 Hughes brothers film Menace II Society, which depicts the side grip in its opening scene, as the movie that popularized the style.
    Journalists? Most of them seem to get their gun "education" from movies and TV and have no basis whatsoever in fact and reality.
    The fundamental difference between modern liberalism/progressivism and most other similar ideologies is that liberalism seeks to make everyone equally mediocre, while other ideologies seek to make others equally excellent. In other words, liberalism/progressivism rewards the worst of the worst, whereas other ideologies rewards those who actually care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NE19149 View Post
    LOL!
    You a bad mutha!


    Actually it might be hard holding my AK sideways with a full 30rnd magazine and even harder with the drum.

    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete
    Drawn only to be washed away
    For the time that I've been given
    I am what I am


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    On a related topic, don't forget the gun show at Valley Forge this weekend!
    The fundamental difference between modern liberalism/progressivism and most other similar ideologies is that liberalism seeks to make everyone equally mediocre, while other ideologies seek to make others equally excellent. In other words, liberalism/progressivism rewards the worst of the worst, whereas other ideologies rewards those who actually care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailaway View Post
    On a related topic, don't forget the gun show at Valley Forge this weekend!
    This close to Christmas?

    Pass....

    I dont really need anything.....even ammo.

    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete
    Drawn only to be washed away
    For the time that I've been given
    I am what I am


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