Privatize PLCB

[Mr Morley]

Isn't it sort of funny? Rendell would privatize roads before liquor stores.

I'm sure Rendell would have done it in a hot second if there was any way to make it happen. But politics (as Tim Rice said) is the "art of the possible."

Of course you also overlook the gorilla in the room.

The union that the employees are part of. You KNOW they are against any type of privatization.

It's bigger than that. the PCLB is a patronage system, and having jobs (especially cushy ones) to dole out is key to patronage politics.

[Illiniwek]

Let's also add that privatization is no solution at all. It means dumping a state-run monopoly for a heavily state-regulated monopoly. (The privatized entity would still be stuck with contracts and leases that may have more to do with someone's political purpose than the business purpose of the retail wing of PLCB. And customers would have no consumer choice.)

The solution is abolition of the retail operation, with the state auctioning off its stock and facilities. Then the state can do what it should (regulate license holders) and entrepreneurs can do what they should.

[billy ross]

So anybody ask Tom Corbett what he would do?

BTW the NJ store in the picture looks slightly nicer than the last state store we finally replaced in my neighborhood a couple of years ago.

That liquor store in the photo is in Brooklyn, of all places, and not Jersey.

[thunda]

Of course you also overlook the gorilla in the room.

The union that the employees are part of. You KNOW they are against any type of privatization.

That was the main thesis of an article in Philly Mag several years ago (which I can't find for whatever reason). Apparently every governor (R or D) for the thirty years has tried to abolish the state store system and pressure from the unions killed the efforts. Rendell saw the limitations and decided to install someone to implement moderate reforms (Sunday hours, Chairman's selections, supermarket branches, etc).

[billy ross]

most places would see an upgrade. desolate is just against change. yeah, and maybe all towns would look like chester in nj with the plcb. hardly representative of the whole state. the liquor store on girard ave is an abomination. I can't buy wine from the liquor store on fairmount ave with the extremely poor selection on sunday. great for all those byo's, great for revenues.

I thought you felt that 'abomination' is a word which shouldn't be used lightly, and should be used particularly sparingly, in fact.

[billy ross]

which is how it works in Texas. Of course, the Southern Baptists sitting in high places notice the loss of revenues in their dry counties, and figure out they could put it to vote again and see if the locals want liquor stores, which of course they do...many of them. Several of Dallas area counties were dry when I moved here, but no longer.

Jews don't recognize the divinity of Christ,
Protestants don't recognize the primacy of the Pope, and
Baptists don't recognize each other in liquor stores.

[billy ross]

That was the main thesis of an article in Philly Mag several years ago (which I can't find for whatever reason). Apparently every governor (R or D) for the thirty years has tried to abolish the state store system and pressure from the unions killed the efforts. Rendell saw the limitations and decided to install someone to implement moderate reforms (Sunday hours, Chairman's selections, supermarket branches, etc).

You mean Ridge, not Rendell. Ridge put Newman in charge of the State Stores and he turned the system around. Rendell, sadly, chased him out by reasserting politics into governance.

[raider.adam]

Let's also add that privatization is no solution at all. It means dumping a state-run monopoly for a heavily state-regulated monopoly. (The privatized entity would still be stuck with contracts and leases that may have more to do with someone's political purpose than the business purpose of the retail wing of PLCB. And customers would have no consumer choice.)

The solution is abolition of the retail operation, with the state auctioning off its stock and facilities. Then the state can do what it should (regulate license holders) and entrepreneurs can do what they should.

When there is talk of privatization, I take it as selling off everything, not just having entrepreneurs run the state stores.

[phillyaggie]

Jews don't recognize the divinity of Christ,
Protestants don't recognize the primacy of the Pope, and
Baptists don't recognize each other in liquor stores.

yeah, that's one of the most common jokes in Texas. Heck, even folks at Baylor University (affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention) likely get a chuckle out of it everytime they hear it.

[RussDiamond]

One of the things that allows Adam's "gorilla" to weigh 500 pounds is the fact that the PLCB is the largest liquor wholesaler in the world. That leaves a plenty of room for monkeying around in the gap between massive volume deals and retail pricing.

[Mr Morley]

One of the things that allows Adam's "gorilla" to weigh 500 pounds is the fact that the PLCB is the largest liquor wholesaler in the world. That leaves a plenty of room for monkeying around in the gap between massive volume deals and retail pricing.

Yet we have the highest liquor prices in the region.

I'd call that the second part of the gorilla most people avoid: the State is addicted to the money it makes off its monopoly.

Just to annoy some in this thread, if this monopoly had formed "naturally" (ie, through market forces) many of you would be railing against state interference with its natural right to do whatever the hell it wanted to.

[Illiniwek]

When there is talk of privatization, I take it as selling off everything, not just having entrepreneurs run the state stores.

Well, let me see the legislative language.

I don't trust Rendell and the legislature any further than I can throw them.

[Mr Morley]

I don't trust Rendell and the legislature any further than I can throw them.

I'm betting you could actually get some loft on the current, slim, trim nearly post-gubernatorial Rendell.

[Illiniwek]

Just to annoy some in this thread, if this monopoly had formed "naturally" (ie, through market forces) many of you would be railing against state interference with its natural right to do whatever the hell it wanted to.

This question veers into the realm of fantasy. Retail sales of alcohol have fairly low barriers to entry and a product with fairly inelastic demand. A monopoly couldn't form without extensive regulatory interference in favor of a particular retailer.

Indeed, the state can't even maintain its own monopoly without draconian penalties for purchasing outside the state or expensive fees and inconvenient regulations to have something sent into the state. The need for government coercion to prop it up is just more reason to dump the system.

[Mr Morley]

This question veers into the realm of fantasy. Retail sales of alcohol have fairly low barriers to entry and a product with fairly inelastic demand. A monopoly couldn't form without extensive regulatory interference in favor of a particular retailer.

Indeed, the state can't even maintain its own monopoly without draconian penalties for purchasing outside the state or expensive fees and inconvenient regulations to have something sent into the state. The need for government coercion to prop it up is just more reason to dump the system.

Verizon Communications - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*cough*

[MarketStEl]

I'm sure Rendell would have done it in a hot second if there was any way to make it happen. But politics (as Tim Rice said) is the "art of the possible."

The fate of Gov. Rendell's proposal to lease the Turnpike system underscores this point.

thunda: I don't recall the Democrat prior to Gov. Rendell, Gov. Robert P. ["The Real Bob"] Casey Sr., floating a proposal to sell off the PLCB retail stores during his eight years in office. That doesn't mean he didn't, though. Illiniwek: All the GOP privatization proposals I recall did not call for selling off the State Stores as a single entity -- the system would have been broken up completely. That, I can assure you, never flew with the union.

[Illiniwek]

(ie, through market forces)

Verizon doesn't operate in the free market. Telecommunications is among the most regulated areas of the economy, and its original core activity, landline telephone service, is a public utility.

And take a lozenge.

[Mr Morley]

Verizon doesn't operate in the free market. Telecommunications is among the most regulated areas of the economy, and its original core activity, landline telephone service, is a public utility.

Which goes to show the success of "deregulation."

*hold out a box of Altoids*

[desolate]

Ok,


SO how's this then.

(Questions, I'm not against privatization it's not without downsides)


SO you get a "bottle shop" in Fairmount.


What's West and North Philly going to get?

Or Ephrata or Lewisburg or Bristol?



Alcohol is a drug, so you're now deregulating it's sale.

Again, yes there would be winners (yupster parties) and losers (north philly now has wholesale cheap vodka 7 days a week)

[eldondre]

I thought you felt that 'abomination' is a word which shouldn't be used lightly, and should be used particularly sparingly, in fact.

have you been to the store?
there's another reason why verizon is an extremely poor comparable

This question veers into the realm of fantasy. Retail sales of alcohol have fairly low barriers to entry and a product with fairly inelastic demand. A monopoly couldn't form without extensive regulatory interference in favor of a particular retailer.

The Retail component shows no signs of ever being a monopoly save the consolidation of production and retail into one single entity. the freer beer market is actually diversifying. It's worth noting though that eliminating the retail segment is only part of dismantling the worthless regulatory body known as the PLCB. There's no need for a PLCB middleman (wine stores should be able to order directly from the winery) just like there's no need for two classifications of distributors. If the PLCB is the middleman and, you'll still have a distribution monopoly and said markup. If in order to pass the legislation, the PLCB wants to sell off its stores lock, stock, and barrel and set a phase in period like with electricity, so be it.
desolate-most places would benefit not just wealthy ones, places like middletown might get in town liquor and wine stores. MI hasn't collapsed because markets can sell liquor..it collapsed when the jobs left, justlike camden (not to say all of MI is as bad as camden). Ephrata will also be fine. places like Lancaster will see all sorts of new investment. as seand noted, we already have places like that, so called stop n go's. the basic idea behind the plcb is to make alcohol consumption as expensive and inconvenient as possible. while it does succeed at that, it's ultimate social goal has been a failure. and if people can't drink cheap booze, it's not like there aren't alternatives available round the clock on the street.