Unions may hold city budget relief hostage ...

[billy ross]

No. It has an impact for everyone. There are people that come into the city to shop, but frankly, not that many--they have plenty, and better shopping options, with parking lots. It impacts city dwellers. Look at the article. They focused on Germantown Avenue, in Chestnut Hill, which is still part of the contiguous city and county of Philadelphia. Minutes away from them are Plymouth Meeting Mall, Willow Grove Mall, and of course, KoP. With big-azzed parking lots. And great stores. Big ones. Lots of them. Good department stores like Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom's and Neiman's and Lord & Taylor's, I could go on. 6% vs. 8%. Do the math. It really adds up.

However, it becomes about more than the math. Sure I can afford an extra $72 in taxes, but it bothers me to reward the City's incompetence. And you know what? That tax won't ever go away. In two years, they'll want more. And more. And more....

Germantown Avenue in Chestnut Hill is the de facto downtown for people who live in suburban places like Wyndmoor and Erdenheim, and other suburban locales also. People move to those burbs to get CH's cachet but avoid the wage tax. I am constantly lied to by people who claim they live in "Chestnut Hill" but then I dig deeper and I find out that they actually live in Montgomery County.

[billy ross]

How come Jersey is going down the crap hole with their lower sale %. How's the state of Delaware a state with 0% doing? Not much of a draw to them aside from lower sales tax. While maybe Jersey is more biz friendly, not much draw there either. It just ain't about nickles and shoes hon, is more complex.

Jersey's sales tax rate starts at 7% and goes up from there, so it ain't all that cheap on the sales taxes. Jersey has punishingly-high property taxes and crazy high income taxes. However, when its taxes were low it lured alot of businesses to open corporate HQ's there, and they haven't moved (yet). It's living off its past accomplishments. I'm watching to see signs of companies fleeing Jersey for low tax PA (PA has lower income taxes than Delaware even).

[billy ross]

History has shown that people care a lot less about high consumption taxes (even nobody complains about the Federal excise tax on gasoline).

People complain a LOT about assessed taxes which come out the other end, like your income and your assets.



PA and NJ seem to be in the worst of both worlds because both states get a lot of their revenue directly taxing your backside... whereas nobody would complain about paying a few extra dollars to buy a TV, but then we don't have low sales taxes, either... so we hurt both ways.

Fixed income people are usually the ones who yell the loudest about sales taxes. Wage earners and the rich hardly blink.



This is why you see people talk so positively about the cost of living in Texas, which has very sales tax rates, especially in the big cities, but the locals down there mostly bitch about their high property tax rates [it's bad but nothing like Jersey]. Because properties down there are way cheaper than they are up here, average prop tax bills are still less than they are in PA/NJ, but not by much... still a couple thou each year for a $200K rancher.

I lived in San Antonio and had to pay a City Sales Tax, which was temporarily combined with a 1-cent VIA Transit Sales Tax, coupled with a Bexar County Sales Tax, coupled with a Texas Sales Tax.

All this is rolled up into one rate when you buy something and in some years the sales tax went above 10%.

Texas also lets its cities charge huge Hotel/Motel taxes, which in Dallas and San Antonio are extremely high and bring room rates that should be at $220 a night to $355 a night.

PA has low income and sales taxes both.

[Valley Twin]

By the way, Fat Eddie said he is veto'ing this thing on Friday.

Unless they re-insert his pet spending back into the budget (he doesn't want CHIP slashed), then we will have Plan C.

Rendell threatened to veto that state budget, not the city legislation

[Hospitalitygirl]

BillyRoss--the Philadelphia Politician's greatest friend and biggest apologist.

Face it Billy, you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.

[PhillyRunner]

BillyRoss--the Philadelphia Politician's greatest friend and biggest apologist.

Face it Billy, you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.

I believe the proper phrase is: "You can rub and rub, but you can't make **** shine."

[Hospitalitygirl]

Stu Bykofsky: Why 'out there' in Pa. they resent us 'in here' | Philadelphia Daily News | 09/14/2009

Since it's a big question:

...Finally, state spending. In education - 40 percent of the state budget - Philadelphia gets a lot more than it pays. "Out there," they know it, and resent it.

I wanted to know if Philadelphia, in total, pays more to the state than it gets back. I called city and state revenue offices, even House Democratic Appropriations Chairman Dwight Evans, who's been in Harrisburg since God rode a trike. Unbelievably, they couldn't answer the question.

Neither could the Pennsylvania Economy League.

I was told that it's too complicated. Too many streams of revenue intertwined like a bowl of spaghetti.

One person did take a stab at it: Andrew Ritter, executive director of the GOP Policy Committee. Crunching Revenue Department data, he says that Philadelphia sends about $1.3 billion to Harrisburg and gets back $2.4 billion. This is based on listed major sources of revenue and expenditure, but since it is not all sources, the result is not 100 percent accurate, but it's in the ballpark.

I'm not saying that with Philly's large population and our problems, we shouldn't get more than what goes to a county with more black bears than people. But we ought to understand that how much we get, and how we spend it, our behavior and our fabled addytude, gives "out there" a sour feeling about Philadelphia that may be off-base, but is not "irrational."

[raider.adam]

You're assuming that the retailers affected (i.e. those near suburban competitors) won't lower their prices 2% (or maybe 1% more than they already have) to remain competitive with their suburban counterparts. Then the end result down the road will be either cheaper rents for them versus the burbs or a lower value of their franchise when they go to sell it (due to reduced profitability). They might even offer a 2% 'rebate' of the sales taxes as a marketing ploy. I don't know how the big national chains handle situations like this, but with stores like Circuit City going belly up, I am thinking about more mom and pops.

There is no assumption, Billy. Again, from speaking to economists, they said when one region raises sales tax higher than the adjoining region, the above is what taxes place in regards to revenue.

The big national chains probably don't care as much. If you are going to buy something from best buy, I doubt they care all that much if it is the best buy in Philly or the Best Buy in Cherry Hill. That is what I pointed out about the Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce supporting the sales tax increase. What does David Cohen and Comcast care? Sales tax probably has almost a zero affect on their bottom line.

Finally, your premise that businesses are going to have to shave 2% off their bottom line to try to stay competitive further illustrates the bad move.

[raider.adam]

I didn't say they were a good thing. What I believe is that the whole country is down the crappers and a mass exodus of shoppers will not necessary hit Jersey nor Dewalare and send us to the hole. Philly is way more than shopping but should also have more stores.
Maybe tell ur chick to start working on bringing bizness here.

Who's my chick?