Unions may hold city budget relief hostage ...

[PhillyRunner]

Council Meets to Discuss Harrisburg Legislation

Members of City Council just wrapped up a meeting where their legal counsel provided a briefing on the amendments added by the state Senate to House Bill 1828, the legislation that provides budget relief to the city.

...

Six Council members attended the session, along with several staffers for other members. Afterwards, many said that speedy passage of HB1828 was best for the city.

"We are frankly speaking, bleeding to the tune of $10 million a month," said Councilman Darrell Clarke. "We're interested to have this come to a conclusion very soon."

Councilman Bill Greenlee said: "Get it done and get it done in the time frame where we don't have to go to Plan C."

...

On the pension piece of this, Clarke said he had not spoken with union leaders, noting: "that is between the administration and the unions." He added that it wasn't clear exactly how the pension amendment would play out.

Well, Darrell Clarke and Bill Greenlee seem to have gotten it right. (IMHO) Although, as per council's usual stance, Clarke seems to be passing the buck as much as possible. Nevertheless, it is heartening to see the council members appreciate that the bill needs to get done. As I said previously with the Senate Republicans, sometimes people do the right things for the wrong reasons. In fact, with politicians, I would bet that, when they do the right thing, it is almost always for the wrong reasons. Call me a cynic...

[raider.adam]

In fact, with politicians, I would bet that, when they do the right thing, it is almost always for the wrong reasons.

Or an accident.

[PhillyRunner]

Or an accident.

Only when it's you.

[MuscleHead]

Union lobbying state reps to nix amendments to city budget-reliefbill | Philadelphia Daily News | 09/01/2009

As the state House of Representatives gears up to vote on legislation that provides budget relief to the city, municipal unions continue their lobbying against amendments made to the bill by the state Senate.
Cathy Scott, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees' District Council 47, which represents the city's white-collar workers, and Bill Gault, president of the firefighters union, sent e-mails yesterday to state representatives asking them to oppose the amended House Bill 1828.


"This is simply not pension reform - it is rewriting labor law to hurt employees and their chosen representatives," Scott writes in a document of "talking points" on HB1828 she sent to state representatives.

Meanwhile, the president of Lodge 5 of the Fraternal Order of Police, John McNesby, said the union has hired a lobbyist and plans to launch a public-relations campaign against the amendments.

"This is ridiculous. It hurts all police officers," McNesby said. "As much as they stand up there and care about us at funerals, they turn around and screw us."

Asked if they were concerned about pending layoffs if the bill isn't passed, union leaders said they were fighting for their workers.

"That's on the mayor. He created this monster. I can't give up stuff we bargained for," said Gault.

[thoth]

This kind of logical dissonance is staggering.

[PhillyRunner]

What are the chances that "an odd coalition of fiscally conservative and pro-union lawmakers team up to defeat the bill." I can see that fiscal conservatives would oppose the sales tax increase on general principle; but I can also see why they would be willing to ignore the increase in exchange for the type of pension reform contemplated by the bill.

Can the unions stop the pension amendments?

...

Unions have more than arguments to back up their opposition to the bill. A quick search of campaign finance records show that House Leadership-- including Speaker Keith McCall, Majority Leader Todd Eachus, and Whip Bill DeWeese-- have gotten nearly $70,000 in contributions from AFSCME in the past three years. These lawmakers are not from Philadelphia and may feel more allegiance to the unions than to Mayor Nutter.

Here is the nightmare scenario for Nutter: an odd coalition of fiscally conservative and pro-union lawmakers team up to the defeat the bill. That could potentially happen if Republican lawmakers decide to oppose the sales tax hike on principle and are joined by enough Democrats who don't want to hurt the unions.

There is another possibility, which is also bad for Mayor Nutter. The bill could be amended again to weaken the pension reforms and sent to conference committee. That would mean another delay and put even more revenue in jeopardy. As Philly Clout reported on Monday, the city is already in jeopardy of losing $10 million in sales tax revenue for October. If the bill goes to conference committee, that money would absolutely disappear.

What do you think? Do the unions have enough power in Harrisburg to stop the pension reforms?

[MuscleHead]

You know this is going to have an impact.

Survivors of slain police officers speak out against House pension bill | Philadelphia Inquirer | 09/02/2009

Soon, Senate and House legislators will find their mailboxes stuffed with yet another angry letter.

This one is written on letterhead from Lodge 5 of the Fraternal Order of Police, but its authors are the surviving spouses and family members of eight Philadelphia police officers killed in the past three years.

"As a result of the 2008-2009 collective bargaining agreement, the FOP was able to secure a pension improvement whereby the pension of slain police officers is automatically increased one rank for purposes of compensation. This improvement not only represents a permanent financial benefit to our families, but a lasting memorial to the appreciation of the citizens of Philadelphia for the sacrifices that we made.

"Although this pension improvement costs virtually nothing in the scheme of things, the current version of (House Bill 1828) would make improvements of this nature illegal in the future!"

Then the letter-writers say this: "We collectively feel that the public expressions of consolation by our local politicians at the funeral services for our loved ones to be disingenuous given the content of this proposed legislation, which they are now seeking to implement. Clearly the economic relief sought by the City should not work to the detriment of the police and their families and/or preclude them from meaningful collective bargaining."

The letter is signed by, Roslyn Harrison, Kim Pawlowski, Jasmine Nazario; Larry and Patsy McDonald, Kathy Simpson, Ann Skerski, Judy Cassidy and Michelle Liczbinski.

[PhillyRunner]

You know this is going to have an impact.

Survivors of slain police officers speak out against House pension bill | Philadelphia Inquirer | 09/02/2009

(Sigh.)

I've always backed the cops; in part because I'm married to a prosecutor, and in part because I know they have a tough job (save for the SOBs who think that part of their job is shaking people down for fun/profit). And I've always been tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt when it came to contract negotiations.

But this is sad. They might as well just exhume the fallen officers' bodies and parade them around Harrisburg. What's worse is that voters and legislators are both weak-minded enough to let this type of manipulation work. The pension issues have nothing to do with officers who die in the line of duty. Perhaps it's gauche to say, but the city's financial issues are much larger than that.

I love the city - the people, the restaurants, the architecture, the history; but most days, I hate the City - the incompetent and corrupt governance and bureaucracy, and the small-minded interests who insist that the incompetence and corruption must continue.

[Hospitalitygirl]

(Sigh.)

I've always backed the cops; in part because I'm married to a prosecutor, and in part because I know they have a tough job (save for the SOBs who think that part of their job is shaking people down for fun/profit). And I've always been tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt when it came to contract negotiations.

But this is sad. They might as well just exhume the fallen officers' bodies and parade them around Harrisburg. What's worse is that voters and legislators are both weak-minded enough to let this type of manipulation work. The pension issues have nothing to do with officers who die in the line of duty. Perhaps it's gauche to say, but the city's financial issues are much larger than that.

What is more important--full benefits and no jobs? Or some acceptable decreases and a paycheck? Besides, that's what life insurance is for.

I love the city - the people, the restaurants, the architecture, the history; but most days, I hate the City - the incompetent and corrupt governance and bureaucracy, and the small-minded interests who insist that the incompetence and corruption must continue.

Amen!

[thoth]

I love the city - the people, the restaurants, the architecture, the history; but most days, I hate the City - the incompetent and corrupt governance and bureaucracy, and the small-minded interests who insist that the incompetence and corruption must continue.

Often times these people are one in the same. The City is the second largest employer in the city. Keep in mind that the average salary is ~26,000/yr, so not everyone is some fat cat. Lots of workers are just trying to get their's for themselves and their family. By far the largest segment of municipal employees are police, firefighters, EMTs and garbagemen. There is a minority of patronage workers in all the right (read: wrong) places that make dealing with the front lines of the city ungodly, because these were the departments worth controlling for the Party (L&I, BRT, Revenue, PGW).

But now we've reached the point of overlap where "the heroes" (police/fire/etc) and "the scum" (patronage workers, wasteful bureaucrats) have common interests. I don't blame the individual laborer, I'd probably fight for my benefits too, I blame the city and pols for being so incompetent or weak willed in the past that this unsustainable system exists today. But the system has to end one way or another. When you make promises with money you don't have, eventually someone's going to get stiffed.

[PhillyRunner]

Your point is reasonable and well-taken. At the same time, unions play a much different role in city government than in, say, private enterprise. Municipal unions are not fighting "greedy fat cat" executives and stockholders in an effort to more "fairly" split the profits from a business enterprise. They are seeking to take money out of the pockets of taxpayers; and no matter what you or I think they *should* be paid, if those costs exceed what taxpayers generally think their services are worth, then taxpayers will (and many have) vote with their feet.

If municipal workers are dissatisfied with their compensation and benefits, they are free to seek out employment in the private sector, where pensions are a disappearing phenomenon, health insurance copays are common, and poor job performance can lead to being fired. There is no reason that public employees should receive treatment, compensation, or benefits that are any better (or worse) than what they could receive in the private sector.

Often times these people are one in the same. The City is the second largest employer in the city.

This, in itself, is a problem. High government employment almost by definition tends to crowd out private employment. The problem is that, with very limited exceptions, public employment does not create or promote the sort of wealth creation that is necessary to improve living standards and finance the very public spending that makes government jobs available.

Keep in mind that the average salary is ~26,000/yr, so not everyone is some fat cat. Lots of workers are just trying to get their's for themselves and their family.

As is every other taxpayer, out of whose pockets the municipal workers' salaries are taken.

Out of curiosity, are you saying the average municipal salary is 26,000/yr? I'm not sure that's right, at least according to the quick and dirty math I did from the city's CAFR.

By far the largest segment of municipal employees are police, firefighters, EMTs and garbagemen. There is a minority of patronage workers in all the right (read: wrong) places that make dealing with the front lines of the city ungodly, because these were the departments worth controlling for the Party (L&I, BRT, Revenue, PGW).

Hmmm... according to the 2008 CAFR, there are 28,400 employees in the city of Philadelphia. (I think that number does not include PGW, but I could be mistaken.) Of that number, 7,754 are uniformed police officers, 2,052 are "fire" related, and 1,239 are sanitation. By my calculations, that means there are just over 11,000 employees involved in the provision of police, fire, and sanitation services, leaving some 17,400 employees doing everything else, including ~2,400 "General management and support" personnel.

But now we've reached the point of overlap where "the heroes" (police/fire/etc) and "the scum" (patronage workers, wasteful bureaucrats) have common interests. I don't blame the individual laborer, I'd probably fight for my benefits too, I blame the city and pols for being so incompetent or weak willed in the past that this unsustainable system exists today. But the system has to end one way or another. When you make promises with money you don't have, eventually someone's going to get stiffed.

Yup. I just don't think it should be today's taxpayers. If municipal workers are unhappy with their comp and benefits, they can go find other jobs. (Sure, one might retort that taxpayers can go find another city or township; and, of course, many of them have. Do we really want to encourage even more to leave?)

[billy ross]

People are willing to pay for quality of life. Not everybody, but many people are. If not, you would see many more people like me driving older vehicles and wearing threadbard clothes. The city can't allow the quality of life to decline. It is increasing quality of life which has and will contiue to increase our tax base and therefore allow us to decrease our taxes while continuing to increase the quality of life, in a self-reinforcing virtuous cycle which is only limited by the affordability of the city as a place to live. That is the path we have been on for quite a while, and it is Nutter's plan. We can't lose sight of that goal.

Nutter put a gun to the city's head and he is screaming that it will go off unless the city gets its fiscal house in order, and part of this cleaning up its act is intelligent union contracts. The state senate is aware of this and decided to ram through some of the needed changes. I sincerely hope that the state house fears Nutter and loves the city (or at least the reps from the city love the city). I really don't want that gun to go off - it would be messy.

[knightsroad]

What is more important--full benefits and no jobs? Or some acceptable decreases and a paycheck? Besides, that's what life insurance is for.
Amen!

Are you for real with the above comment? By chance, you get robbed by some scumbag while you're out lollygagging on South St one nite and God forbid the responding Cop chases down and gets shot and killed by the doer who ain't going back to jail, or if by chance you hate Cops, let's put a fireman in the equation: some fireman goes running into your house to save you after your illegal electric hookup sets your house on fire and the ceiling collapses trapping and killing the fireman, and your response in either case to the family afterward would be, "That's what insurance is for!" That type sentiment deserves a 2nd

You sound like a perfect candidate who SHOULD move out of the city if you don't think Cops and Firemen deserve decent wages and the "just ok" pensions that follow after protecting your A$$ for 25 or 30 years of their life. I got some real rich retirees living on my block I'd like you to meet with their $18K before tax pensions.

[eldondre]

nobody said cops and firemen don't deserve decent wages, you just made that up. anyways, how do I find out who my state rep is so I can send them a letter to pass the bill and stop holding me hostage?

[Hospitalitygirl]

Are you for real with the above comment? By chance, you get robbed by some scumbag while you're out lollygagging on South St one nite and God forbid the responding Cop chases down and gets shot and killed by the doer who ain't going back to jail, or if by chance you hate Cops, let's put a fireman in the equation: some fireman goes running into your house to save you after your illegal electric hookup sets your house on fire and the ceiling collapses trapping and killing the fireman, and your response in either case to the family afterward would be, "That's what insurance is for!" That type sentiment deserves a 2nd

You sound like a perfect candidate who SHOULD move out of the city if you don't think Cops and Firemen deserve decent wages and the "just ok" pensions that follow after protecting your A$$ for 25 or 30 years of their life. I got some real rich retirees living on my block I'd like you to meet with their $18K before tax pensions.

Are you dense? The FOP trots out families who have suffered a loss. Just to work on everyone's emotions. However, there are numerous issues here. Part of some sort of financial planning involves buying life insurance at the very least when you are about to start a family. Then, for the rest of smart planning, you should at the very least do some sort of IRA yearly, if not more. You cannot just rely on pensions. I never said I don't want police and fire to have living wages--but the current proposals solve nothing, and in fact will probably make the pension funding issue worse in the mid- and long-run. Do you want to retire to an imploded pension? But sure, beat up on me since that seems easier.

[Hospitalitygirl]

nobody said cops and firemen don't deserve decent wages, you just made that up. anyways, how do I find out who my state rep is so I can send them a letter to pass the bill and stop holding me hostage?

Committee of 70 - Elected Officials

this should work

[eldondre]

anyone know where Frank Oliver stands on the issue?

[raider.adam]

anyone know where Frank Oliver stands on the issue?

Wherever he is told to by party leadership.

[PhillyRunner]

Are you dense? The FOP trots out families who have suffered a loss. Just to work on everyone's emotions. However, there are numerous issues here. Part of some sort of financial planning involves buying life insurance at the very least when you are about to start a family. Then, for the rest of smart planning, you should at the very least do some sort of IRA yearly, if not more. You cannot just rely on pensions. I never said I don't want police and fire to have living wages--but the current proposals solve nothing, and in fact will probably make the pension funding issue worse in the mid- and long-run. Do you want to retire to an imploded pension? But sure, beat up on me since that seems easier.

Yep. Bringing out the widows of fallen officers is just poor form. This issue is so much larger than the tragedy of an officer being killed in the line of duty. (In fact, one could argue that the direction Nutter is ostensibly trying to take the city -- i.e., lower taxes, more jobs -- would help protect officers' lives much more than giving in to yet another round of concessions.)

Also, not counting on the pension is just plain smart planning. There are plenty of financial alternatives to protect the financial well-being of your family; but draining more money out of an already depleted tax base is not a viable long-term strategy.

[billy ross]

The UAW had a chance to help the Big 3 stay relevant. Instead they gave very grudgingly, and they brought the Big 3 down in flames instead of moving into a solvent future. Now what are their pensions worth? I mean, paying guys NOT to work? You've got to be kidding me.

It is in the interest of the unions that the employer be healthy. I don't understand the attitude of the FOP. Calling Philly 'Tombstone' isn't going to help in the long run. Are they really that shortsighted?