Yo PhillySpeaks - I NEED SOME BUTTS IN SOME SEATS THURSDAY

**ArcticSplash** · 10-08-2012, 04:00 PM

Remember those ATVs?
Council To Put the "ATV Law" Up for Final Vote Thursday - Philadelinquency

I have learned that there will be some spirited opposition by ATV enthusiasts hoping to block Councilwoman BRB's bill that seeks to raise the illegal operator fines to $2,000 and also give the PPD the authority to destroy vehicles under certain terms and conditions.

That means I need you in City Hall, Room 400. Bring your neighbors. Bring anyone you can. There is plenty of room in the chamber to hold everyone, including in the upstairs gallery.

City Hall, Room 400.

THIS THURSDAY, 10:00AM SHARP.

Bring a photo ID with you to check in at Security. The entrance to City Hall is on the North-East corner of the building. Take the elevators up to the 4th floor, go through the metal detector, and take a seat in Council chambers. If you would also like to speak, there is a sign-in sheet immediately to your left as you walk into the chamber, and you must meet with the Sergeant-At-Arms of City Council to sign on to the speaker's list.

The bill number is 120725 if you choose to speak.

There is a hard time limit of 3 minutes. If you go over it, the machine will cut off your microphone. If you haven't spoken in front of City Council, it's best that you prepare a statement and read from it at the podium. To give you a tip: 3 minutes is roughly one page of text at 12-pt Arial when most people are reading aloud.

I have my own speech already prepared and posted on my site. Use it as inspiration. Talk about what nuisances ATVs have given you as a resident of Philadelphia.

I really, really, really need you to be there. The Police are asking for this bill, and so are a lot of stakeholders in communities all over Philadelphia. We must win.

**Volanova** · 10-08-2012, 04:06 PM

Argh, I'd totally be there, but there's no way I'll make it on Thursday at 10 AM with this short notice... Sorry dude. Good luck though!

**raider.adam** · 10-08-2012, 04:18 PM

I'm still not sure the point of destroying the ATV. Not like the ATV did anything wrong.

**ArcticSplash** · 10-08-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

I'm still not sure the point of destroying the ATV. Not like the ATV did anything wrong.

When the PPD gives the ATV over to the PPA with the motor garbaged, they will have fun disposing of it at auction. More like, the ATV can instead be forwarded to a scrapper.

As it stands now without this bill:

1. PPD confiscates vehicle
2. Sits in PPD lot, nobody claims it who passes the pre-reqs for a release (show title, clear of traffic fines, etc).
3. Transported to PPA
4. Goes to auction, a rider buys it
5. ATV goes back on to City streets
6. PPD confiscates vehicle...

Making the ATV fit for metal scrappers is a better way to recirculate the ATV back into our economy with less of a chance it will be re-forged into another ATV to buzz around the front windows of your house.

**raider.adam** · 10-08-2012, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by ArcticSplash

When the PPD gives the ATV over to the PPA with the motor garbaged, they will have fun disposing of it at auction. More like, the ATV can instead be forwarded to a scrapper.

As it stands now without this bill:

1. PPD confiscates vehicle
2. Sits in PPD lot, nobody claims it who passes the pre-reqs for a release (show title, clear of traffic fines, etc).
3. Transported to PPA
4. Goes to auction, a rider buys it
5. ATV goes back on to City streets
6. PPD confiscates vehicle...

Making the ATV fit for metal scrappers is a better way to recirculate the ATV back into our economy with less of a chance it will be re-forged into another ATV to buzz around the front windows of your house.

Or just give it to auctions that operate outside of Philadelphia.

Blam. Problem solved.

Out of curiosity, have they supplied numbers of how many of the ATVs they seize have been from auction? It wouldn't be the first time (nor the last) that Council passes legislation based on anecdote.

**RedBullMB** · 10-08-2012, 07:07 PM

Will there be dirtbike/ATV parking available? If not, I'm not sure if I can make it.

**ArcticSplash** · 10-08-2012, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Or just give it to auctions that operate outside of Philadelphia.

Blam. Problem solved.

Out of curiosity, have they supplied numbers of how many of the ATVs they seize have been from auction? It wouldn't be the first time (nor the last) that Council passes legislation based on anecdote.

Will the taxpayers be paying for a no-bid contract to a hauler to cart them off to some other city?

I would rather just have the City pour discount anti-freeze into the tanks and then give them to homeless metal scrappers for $80/ea.

**NJbound** · 10-08-2012, 09:09 PM

artic is on top of things. Hope it works out for you guys... The ATV's are a mess. I almost hit one at 5 am in the dark the other day going to work at 5 am at Levick and Marsden. I was coming up Levick and one blew thru the stop sign (with no lights) right in front of me on Marsden.. 20' faster and I would have nailed him

**bmp02** · 10-08-2012, 11:42 PM

While I think more extreme measures are needed, I'm a little concerned about the harshness of the bill. I think we should continue to utilize other tactics that have found to be useful.

And, the city already set the precedent when they negotiated the deal with the skateboarders.

I would hold my vote until further research and more data is available.

**raider.adam** · 10-09-2012, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by ArcticSplash

Will the taxpayers be paying for a no-bid contract to a hauler to cart them off to some other city?

Not sure what that has to do with it.

**Malloy** · 10-09-2012, 12:54 AM

I'm all about cracking down on the ATV guys, but junking bikes is not good.

**ArcticSplash** · 10-09-2012, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by bmp02

While I think more extreme measures are needed, I'm a little concerned about the harshness of the bill. I think we should continue to utilize other tactics that have found to be useful.

And, the city already set the precedent when they negotiated the deal with the skateboarders.

I would hold my vote until further research and more data is available.

The skateboard bill was poorly written. The ATV bill isn't. I suspect you haven't read either bill. [I don't endorse YES votes to City Council bills that I haven't read. Ask raideradam.]

The vehicles stay illegal no matter what the vote is up or down. Two things change: The fines increase to the MSRP of most of the vehicles, and the PPD can intercede the Parking Authority by destroying vehicles (but only when the vehicle goes unclaimed).

If we really need to have a PennPraxis-type report done to make two changes to the Title 12 behavior code such as this and cannot forsee obvious consequences, we really do have a problem.

**JakeL** · 10-09-2012, 09:05 AM

I've watched them wreck Athletic Square park, seen the aftermath of a dirt biker running into a 8 year old, and take over the streets with their brazen behavior. I'm all for this law and will do my best to be there.

**bmp02** · 10-09-2012, 02:27 PM

You are right. Let me read the bills before I make a determination.
Do you have a link to the proposed ATV bill?

Thanks,

**JakeL** · 10-10-2012, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by bmp02

You are right. Let me read the bills before I make a determination.
Do you have a link to the proposed ATV bill?

Thanks,

http://legislation.phila.gov/attachments/13583.pdf

**ArcticSplash** · 10-10-2012, 08:10 PM

The bill will be delayed to be sent back for some more edits.

ATV Bill Delayed - Philadelinquency

**NickTheCage** · 10-10-2012, 08:56 PM

Haven't read the bill and everything I know abt it is the few times I have seen clips on the evening news.

Does this bill basically make it illegal to ride an ATV in the city or just sidewalks and city parks?

**MariusPontmercy** · 10-10-2012, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by NickTheCage

Haven't read the bill and everything I know abt it is the few times I have seen clips on the evening news.

Does this bill basically make it illegal to ride an ATV in the city or just sidewalks and city parks?

Its already illegal to ride an ATV anywhere except on private land with the landowners consent (unless of course its your own land that is). It's been that way inside and outside the city, but never properly enforced.

**OffenseTaken** · 10-10-2012, 10:42 PM

Auctioning > junking. This city has no business cutting off revenue streams.

The questions are: how deep within Pennsyltucky will we need to send the bikes, and how do we get council to agree to it?

**NickTheCage** · 10-10-2012, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by MariusPontmercy

Its already illegal to ride an ATV anywhere except on private land with the landowners consent (unless of course its your own land that is). It's been that way inside and outside the city, but never properly enforced.

The entire state?

Whats the logic behind no ATV's on roads?