Yo PhillySpeaks - I NEED SOME BUTTS IN SOME SEATS THURSDAY

[ArcticSplash]

Auctioning > junking. This city has no business cutting off revenue streams.

The questions are: how deep within Pennsyltucky will we need to send the bikes, and how do we get council to agree to it?

To Erie.

And who's the lucky contractor who will be getting the City business to bike haul?




We are already doing auctions now and the bikes go right back on the streets because the same crews who ride are the same ones that turn up at the PPA auctions. That's a big fail.

The bikes need to go out of circulation when they're snagged by the cops. Period.

The City can still make a quick buck by selling them to metal scrappers, after the engine has been killed.




No one is disputing that you CANNOT own an ATV. Or that you CANNOT have it on your private property leased or owned. And no one is saying that you CANNOT ride it.

But Pennsylvania is crystal clear--it doesn't go on public thoroughfares like streets. Or pavements.


So what is so bad about raising the fines on ATVs to the MSRP of the vehicle, and then giving the PPD the power to pour antifreeze in the gas tank to kill the engine so that way PPA doesn't continue to be a fencing operation for ATV enthusiasts?

[ArcticSplash]

In fact, if you check PA House Act 40, aka the Castle Doctrine or the "Stand Your Ground Law", the way I read Section 3.2 which deals with someone who is attacking you or threatening to attack you while a felony is in progress, there are 3 tests that have to be met to use deadly force:

Subpart i - You have a legal right to be there

Subpart ii - You fear an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury

And most importantly, the person or people have:

A) a firearm or replica of a firearm as defined in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9712 (relating to sentences for offenses committed with firearms); or
(B) any other weapon readily or apparently capable of lethal use.

Does this mean you can shoot an ATV operator that is barreling towards you on the pavement and you have very little opportunity to escape it? This entirely depends if the Commonwealth considers anything that an ATV operator is doing at the time he might strike you to be a felony. And if that's the case, then it seems like this provision in the Castle Doctrine gives you a strong defense if you use lethal force.

I dunno---when the public is calling for blood, the DA's office definitely stretches its arms out as far as it can when it needs to and goes for a felony charge, although I would think in most ATV accidents the usual charge would be unintended or involuntary manslaughter. Tough call.

Note however, that this provision of the PA Stand Your Ground Law has yet to be tested in a courtroom.



And even with that; I would think that an upset father who shoots an ATV operator who is barreling towards his kids, causes him to crash into a wall and he dies, jury nullification will make it really really difficult for a DA to stick charges on a father trying to protect the life of his kids...

Who are on the sidewalk because they have a right to be there and not to be mowed down by an ATV going at street-speeds down the pavement.

[ArcticSplash]

By the way, the Castle Doctrine I just mentioned...

If the ATV is stolen, then an assumption MUST be made that had the ATV operator been stopped and the PPD discovered the vehicle to be stolen, then an ATV operator was in the progress of a felony. Possession of stolen property.

Ergo, Castle Doctrine kicks in for the defendant who just shot the ATV operator to death.*


*Note: This is all hypothetical stuff, and the citation of Act 40 hasn't been tested in a courtroom. Don't run outside and rack your slide waiting for an ATV to approach you.

So before you reach for "don't put the law into your own hands," the reason I bring this up at all is "perhaps the law DID put it into your own hands." You decide.

[JakeL]

The entire state?

Whats the logic behind no ATV's on roads?

They don't have the mandatory equipment to make it a street legal vehicle, such as turn signals, license plates, sufficent headlights, etc. There are street legal dirtbikes, but they have all this equipment.

[JakeL]

So it passed? Phila. City Council approves bill restricting ATV use | 6abc.com

I didn't know it was up for vote in council today. Good news!

[Gladys]

That's great! Let's see what happens next summer.

[NJbound]

ya know, it really does not matter if it passed or not., Its always been illegal to ride these vehicles down the middle of the streets doing wheelies and blowing thru red lights and stop signs.. But nothing has been done about it. Its just more laws on the books that won't be enforced.

[thoth]

ya know, it really does not matter if it passed or not., Its always been illegal to ride these vehicles down the middle of the streets doing wheelies and blowing thru red lights and stop signs.. But nothing has been done about it. Its just more laws on the books that won't be enforced.

Actually it does matter because this gives the police the power to destroy the ATVs instead of simply auctioning them off - sometimes to their original owners or resellers from Philly.