LMAO @ Scranton Public Workers .. Welcome to the Depression

[NickTheCage]

The problem with this and the reason it isn't funny is that even the most ardent small government person supports government having police and fire fighters. And if first responders quit and go somewhere else, it isn't like they are going to rehire new personnel at minimum wage. It is now a public safety issue.

OK .. still doesn't change the reality that there is $5K in the city account and they can't pay anything more than minimum wage, does it?

Still doesn't change the fact that the union boss is ranting abt his members getting full pay but doesn't realize if they did the checks would bounce.

Kinda sucks when the laws of economics function and you can't print money, no?

[NickTheCage]

+1

Most Libertarians will say that the armed services, the courts and police departments are essential government services. Nick may not think so but that doesn't matter, if put to a vote those services would be kept by about 95-99 % of Americans. The question then becomes: how much are people who do these things worth?
In a free market society I'd suspect it would be more than minimum wage.
Having said all this it's obviously a very funny story up in Scranton. Laugh-out-loud stuff, for sure.
Nick, keep the comedy coming...in times like these we could all do with a smile from time to time.

Depends ... if said free market company is on the edge of running out of $$$. Then that company does what ever it can to survive like cutting employees, salaries, benefits, etc, if it can't increase prices (taxes per public secrtor) and/or volume (increase population public).

Then again these public employees who go around harassing the local businesses and property owners abt being up to code, making sure their stores look right, authorizing u to allow u 2 build a patio in UR yard, etc, etc .. they can now go out into the private sector if they don't like being pain minimum wage, no? I would assume there is a demand for harassers in the collection business considering how many people are defaulting on their bills.

[thoth]

Totally agree that the more money we spend on schooling the better the results.
Look at the wonders that spending $27,000 per pupil has done in the District of Columbia.

Totally agree that pay rate has no incentivizing influence on labor quality and therefore the central tenants of capitalism have just been disproved and your head should be exploding

[five apples]

Totally agree that pay rate has no incentivizing influence on labor quality and therefore the central tenants of capitalism have just been disproved and your head should be exploding

I wonder if he realizes that Rand's works were works of fiction.

[thoth]

I wonder if he realizes that Rand's works were works of fiction.

To his credit, Nick has an extensive catalog of John Galt erotic fan fiction on his website, so I think he is aware that her stories aren't the literal truth, just a prophetic vision of the next few years to come.

[Litter Box]

Heard the state came up with money, about 3.5 million. I'll confirm if I hear more details.

[BarryG]

I wonder if he realizes that Rand's works were works of fiction.

Rand wrote a lot of non-fiction that is a lot harsher than the fiction...

[Litter Box]

Looks like a drop in the bucket. 2.25 Million total. Part of it a loan.

State offers Scranton a $2.25M bailout - News - Citizens Voice

[five apples]

To his credit, Nick has an extensive catalog of John Galt erotic fan fiction on his website, so I think he is aware that her stories aren't the literal truth, just a prophetic vision of the next few years to come.

Wait, are you serious? The dude has a site? If so for the love of God share.

[Litter Box]

Wait, are you serious? The dude has a site? If so for the love of God share.

This has to be a BAZINGA !!!!

[raider.adam]

OK .. still doesn't change the reality that there is $5K in the city account and they can't pay anything more than minimum wage, does it?

Still doesn't change the fact that the union boss is ranting abt his members getting full pay but doesn't realize if they did the checks would bounce.

But that is the thing. The story has a lot of very relevant issues worth discussing, but you made the focus about how funny it is paying police officers minimum wage. The issue at hand could have been used to talk about government prioritization of services, but you stepped all over that message.

A much better tact for such an article would have been "obviously the police and firefighters are a priority service. Why don't they layoff or furlough other workers before driving out first responders?"

You would have had a much different reaction in the thread I bet

Depends ... if said free market company is on the edge of running out of $$$. Then that company does what ever it can to survive like cutting employees, salaries, benefits, etc, if it can't increase prices (taxes per public secrtor) and/or volume (increase population public).

Then again these public employees who go around harassing the local businesses and property owners abt being up to code, making sure their stores look right, authorizing u to allow u 2 build a patio in UR yard, etc, etc .. they can now go out into the private sector if they don't like being pain minimum wage, no? I would assume there is a demand for harassers in the collection business considering how many people are defaulting on their bills.

But again, a variety of those services we as citizens DO want government to provide. As with police, most rational people are ok with the idea of building codes as a public safety issue. A free market economy can go belly up and either be replaced by competitors or no longer have an existing market. Government, at some level, just can't up and disappear because of services mentioned prior. The parts of the government that 99.999% of the population supports can't be replaced (or at least effectively) by the free market.

Really, there is a bright line between limited government and anarchy.

[five apples]

Really, there is a bright line between limited government and anarchy.

He doesn't get that. He has turned basic Libertarian beliefs into an ideology and approaches it in an ideological bent instead of as framework, rather like Rand did. This is why I can't stand ideologues, the world is black and white in their eyes, even though the world and life does not work that way. In the end that is what gets me about this guy.

[NickTheCage]

Totally agree that the more money we spend on schooling the better the results.
Look at the wonders that spending $27,000 per pupil has done in the District of Columbia.

Totally agree that pay rate has no incentivizing influence on labor quality and therefore the central tenants of capitalism have just been disproved and your head should be exploding

You either on bath salts or youre just flat our stupid

Did I miss where the private ownership producing a profit, competition, parents voluntarily sending their kids there with no coercion, etc, etc .. is in the DC Public School system?

[NickTheCage]

But that is the thing. The story has a lot of very relevant issues worth discussing, but you made the focus about how funny it is paying police officers minimum wage. The issue at hand could have been used to talk about government prioritization of services, but you stepped all over that message.

A much better tact for such an article would have been "obviously the police and firefighters are a priority service. Why don't they layoff or furlough other workers before driving out first responders?"

Where did I focus on how funny it is that Police are getting paid min wage? I have many issues with cops but being paid min wage isn't/wouldn't be something that I would support

You would have had a much different reaction in the thread I bet

Thats because most people read what they want to read

But again, a variety of those services we as citizens DO want government to provide. As with police, most rational people are ok with the idea of building codes as a public safety issue.

Actually most people (Outside of a city like Phila I guess) think it is completely intrusive and irrational that you can not build a patio or do work in/on your own private property without getting the 'OK' from some govt busy body and forking over a license fee. Most rational business owners DO NOT want govt harassing them with code violations, making sure you look right, etc, etc .. The average, everyday working citizen may agree with what u said but they don't feel or see the heavy arm of govt. To be honest, they don't even think abt it when they eneter their local market place to purchase a soda or their AM coffee

A free market economy can go belly up and either be replaced by competitors or no longer have an existing market. Government, at some level, just can't up and disappear because of services mentioned prior. The parts of the government that 99.999% of the population supports can't be replaced (or at least effectively) by the free market.

(local only) Besides police and courts to protect your rights, protect u from theft, protect u fron fraud and enforce contracts, what "parts of the govt that 99.999% of the population supports can't be replaced"?

Really, there is a bright line between limited government and anarchy.

I agree

[thoth]

You either on bath salts or youre just flat our stupid

Did I miss where the private ownership producing a profit, competition, parents voluntarily sending their kids there with no coercion, etc, etc .. is in the DC Public School system?

Ah yes, the man who compared modern day New York City to Berlin in 1942 calling me stupid, how choice. Let me slow things down for you. I never said money alone is going to create a model school system, only that paying folks minimum wage for ANY job is not going to attract or keep quality employees. When you have jobs like, you know, guarding and educating vulnerable children, or wearing a badge that lets you shoot people, you generally want quality employees.

Can government corruption or mismanagement lead to incompetent or inefficient employees occupying these slots in spite of adequate or more than adequate pay? There is no question. Can lowering pay to minimum wage guarantee that these slots will always be filled with incompetent or inefficient employees? There is no question.

Maybe if you took the ideological ramrod out of your ass for a second you'd realize that even "cushy" government jobs that exist by mandate can still be fatiguing or difficult. You just want to get off on any misfortune that befalls any government worker, regardless of their character, like a jackass. It's like some Occupy protester posting a news story about Wal-mart laying off a bunch of workers. Whoopie, human misery, I win!

While it may help you inhabit your philosophical wonderland to pretend you are only being criticized by "lefties" or whatever, I would suggest taking a second to realize that your moronic threads have attracted critiques from people from many ideological leanings.

[NickTheCage]

Ah yes, the man who compared modern day New York City to Berlin in 1942 calling me stupid, how choice.

Where did I compare it to 1942 Berlin. I specifically said:

When does somebody dictating to you how you can live your life, qualify as tyranny? Is it only when you are being forced on a train ride to a death camp? Anything before that without your consent, just kind of sucks? Everything after is tyranny. Is that how it works?

It is obvious, to any person with some intelligence, that I was comparing NYC to pre-1939 Germany .. I really enjoy debating you as its fun seeing you get ur feet tangled and then have to lie

WHEN Let me slow things down for you. I never said money alone is going to create a model school system, only that paying folks minimum wage for ANY job is not going to attract or keep quality employees. When you have jobs like, you know, guarding and educating vulnerable children, or wearing a badge that lets you shoot people, you generally want quality employees.

Those must be the “central tenants of capitalism” you were talking abt when we were discussing the DC public schools. Sorry I must have slept thru that chapter of Econ 101

Can government corruption or mismanagement lead to incompetent or inefficient employees occupying these slots in spite of adequate or more than adequate pay? There is no question. Can lowering pay to minimum wage guarantee that these slots will always be filled with incompetent or inefficient employees? There is no question.

Maybe if you took the ideological ramrod out of your ass for a second you'd realize that even "cushy" government jobs that exist by mandate can still be fatiguing or difficult. You just want to get off on any misfortune that befalls any government worker, regardless of their character, like a jackass. It's like some Occupy protester posting a news story about Wal-mart laying off a bunch of workers. Whoopie, human misery, I win!

More bath salts or stupidity if you can’t see difference btwn the Wal-Mart employee and the govt. employee.

[PASnow]

Face it, this thread blew up in your face. You posted this LMFAO thread hoping others would cheer & celebrate. However most of see the realities of it & the hardships it brings upon people, no matter their profession. The fact it IS those who do police & fire for a living makes it that much worse. It's probably just BS politics anyway, like how Nutter always threatens to cut police, fire & libraries. Vote the Dems/Repubs out of office so I can get more in my budget for it.

Secondly, when you put it into those who do "small business" as you put it, are likely feeling for the small businesses up there. As a small but good portion of their clientele now have zero disposable income. Therefore all the businesses up there lose out too, as those police & firemen might have spent cash at a movie theater with the kids, pizza shop, bar or the local pool. Hence it trickles down back out of the local economy.

Everybody hates lazy overpaid government workers, but that doesn't mean we'll celebrate when we read police & fire are getting minimum wage. It'd be like posted an article about how George W Bush or Tony Romo has pancreatic cancer & only has 6 months to live, people wouldn't cheer over it, as much as alot of ppl dislike them.

[WillABro]

There is nothing even remotely funny about a town going broke and city workers losing their lively hood. The OP comes off like a real jerk for the title of the thread.

[thoth]

Where did I compare it to 1942 Berlin. I specifically said:

In terms of the burdens of regulation and govt intrusion in general, NYC is already far worse than the 3rd Reich. Bloomberg dwarfs Hitler in terms of megalomania.

Yeah you're right, I'm sure everyone interpreted this undated remark as being about ONLY pre-1939 Germany. Rats! You caught me lying again because I'm too stupid to understand your cunning insights, right? And everyone else in that other thread in which you inserted your foot into your mouth, too, right?

Those must be the “central tenants of capitalism” you were talking abt when we were discussing the DC public schools. Sorry I must have slept thru that chapter of Econ 101

You brought up DC schools, I'm speaking only about the concept of incentives. If you really think that government jobs are so radically different from private sector jobs that it is impossible for them to ever be burdensome or entail any form of responsibility, or to have worker quality being affected by wages at all, that says a lot about you and how hopelessly irreconcilable your dream philosophy is with reality.

Here's a good anecdote. You would love a place like Argentina because they don't pay their police anything. The result is that the police don't bother to fight crime at all and are completely purchasable by basically any citizen because it is otherwise virtually impossible to make a decent wage. A girl I knew well in Buenos Aires told me that if she was walking down the street and saw a cop on one side and a known rapist on the other, she would take her chance with the rapist, because she'd have a better chance of getting citizens to help her if she were attacked or coerced in some way.

The PPD are an example of a police force with above average corruption for the US, but generally it is not possible for someone like me to buy my way out of speeding tickets or, as another extreme, a violent crime by bribing cops because most citizens can't offer them a fraction of their yearly wage as a bribe. Their wage is an incentive to not be totally corrupt.

More bath salts or stupidity if you can’t see difference btwn the Wal-Mart employee and the govt. employee.

Stupidity on your part for either not recognizing an analogy or why you are alone in your jubilation.

[NickTheCage]

Wait, are you serious? The dude has a site? If so for the love of God share.

Yea .. please do??