LMAO @ Scranton Public Workers .. Welcome to the Depression

[BarryG]

If you're wondering what the SDP's problem is---it's going to mimic this after next school year:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/us...wage.html?_r=1

The SDP has the ability to get a new credit facility around the (SDP's own estimate) of $500MM, which is enough to get it through 2012-2013 but not after that. Since debt service at the SDP is already $0.32 of every dollar going to debt service instead of operations, which is already way way too high... when it takes out that bond that will be the moment when its credit gets cut off and it won't be able to borrow any more until its revenues show an increase warranting an upgrade in borrowing ability or a massive cost restructuring that lowers operation cost to give the SDP enough breathing room to service its existing debt and take out new debt on top of the debt it rolls over.

I have to admit that I will be able to see humor, if only for a moment, in the PFT drones short-circuiting if their pay is cut to minimum wage. However I am not sure I would be laughing if the same happened to our police and firefighters.

The really "hilarious" thing is that SDP has the power to unilaterally change much of the union contract, but can't change retirement benefits unless the state legislature changes laws. So much for collective bargaining but the unions presumably wanted it this way.

[ArcticSplash]

I have to admit that I will be able to see humor, if only for a moment, in the PFT drones short-circuiting if their pay is cut to minimum wage. However I am not sure I would be laughing if the same happened to our police and firefighters.

The really "hilarious" thing is that SDP has the power to unilaterally change much of the union contract, but can't change retirement benefits unless the state legislature changes laws. So much for collective bargaining but the unions presumably wanted it this way.

Laws mean nothing when the checks bounce. If a cash crisis develops and the benefits administrator doesn't get paid... all bets are off. I would assume that all the bonds that SDP's written over the years are insured, but muni bond insurance is pretty worthless with the collapse of the 2 major insurers and bondholders would be forced into a settlement.

But the more likely scenario is that payroll at SDP will fall victim to anything else if they cannot keep up with the cash drain.

[BarryG]

Laws mean nothing when the checks bounce. If a cash crisis develops and the benefits administrator doesn't get paid... all bets are off. I would assume that all the bonds that SDP's written over the years are insured, but muni bond insurance is pretty worthless with the collapse of the 2 major insurers and bondholders would be forced into a settlement.

Not really, the ways the laws are written combined with the ruling of the supreme court means that states and munis have to pay pensions at the expense of all other segments of the budget. So unless the state or city declares bankruptcy, we will be paying pensions while cutting Medicaid, welfare, police, etc.

[billy ross]

Not really, the ways the laws are written combined with the ruling of the supreme court means that states and munis have to pay pensions at the expense of all other segments of the budget. So unless the state or city declares bankruptcy, we will be paying pensions while cutting Medicaid, welfare, police, etc.

What's stopping the SDP from declaring bankruptcy? That seems the logical next step if they can't shed workers to right size their cost structure. When they darkly hint at doomsday scenarios that is the one that makes sense to me.

[BarryG]

What's stopping the SDP from declaring bankruptcy? That seems the logical next step if they can't shed workers to right size their cost structure. When they darkly hint at doomsday scenarios that is the one that makes sense to me.

Nothing (I think) and maybe they should. But I don't think they can change the retirement benefit formula without an act of legislature, since they are state employees.

[NickTheCage]

Not really, the ways the laws are written combined with the ruling of the supreme court means that states and munis have to pay pensions at the expense of all other segments of the budget. So unless the state or city declares bankruptcy, we will be paying pensions while cutting Medicaid, welfare, police, etc.

Even b4 debt service?

[fishcatch]

Caller to 911 - I have a fire and need help fast, 911 operator, Do you want fries with that ?

Let me tell you why that is not funny:


Because fast food workers actually make more than minimum wage.

[fishcatch]

I'll bet the Walmarts of Scranton are making plenty of damned money, and shipping it all of into the pockets of the Walton family, who make more in fifteen minutes than any of their employees make in a year.

Everybody wants to point the fingers at the unions or the workers...or at the taxpayers or non taxpayers, or at the small business owners, or at the local thugs, or the welfare system, so forth and so on. But so few people are sharp enough to point the finger at themselves for shopping at Walmarts and their brethren. That is why there is no money in the local communities anymore - because there is no middle class! And how did the middle class disappear? By the Walmartization of America.

Oh yeah, lest I forget, Wal-Mart is "job creator." Never mind that it has put thousands of small businesses into the refuse bin of history, it's given millions of Americans crappy minimum wage jobs with no benefits! So what happens? They get public assistance! That means everyone else is paying into their means of support. And since they're too poor to afford to buy things anywhere else, they shop at Wal-Mart! And where does that money go? Right into the Waltons' pockets and out of the community! The system is so perfect it's almost terrifying - and then these big billionaires have the nerve to say that raising their taxes would be socialism. Feeling the irony yet?

We are rapidly becoming a nation of paupers and billionaires. This is the same thing that happened in Ancient Rome. Think about it. By the time the Empire was really crumbling and the Vandals were breaking down the doors, the Patricians had amassed ridiculous amounts of wealth and the soldiers who were supposed to be defending the place were being paid with salt. (Hence the word salary we use today.)

Salt was a little more expensive then than it is now, but really...the wealthiest empire on earth paying you to protect it with a bag of salt? Sounds all too eerily familiar here.

See, this was OWS's original message before it became a dirty hippie fest. The super ultra rich are ruining this country by taking away all of our money and putting into their own pockets. They provide masses of crappy low level jobs that put people into the poorhouse so that they can only afford to buy products sold by the company store. No one can ever advance, and everyone becomes dependent upon each other for support. Socialism at its finest, masked as capitalism.

[BarryG]

Even b4 debt service?

Pensions are a senior obligation. Not sure if it's been tested in court vs debt payment. Any muni in this position has probably declared bankruptcy.

[NickTheCage]

I'll bet the Walmarts of Scranton are making plenty of damned money, and shipping it all of into the pockets of the Walton family, who make more in fifteen minutes than any of their employees make in a year.

Everybody wants to point the fingers at the unions or the workers...or at the taxpayers or non taxpayers, or at the small business owners, or at the local thugs, or the welfare system, so forth and so on. But so few people are sharp enough to point the finger at themselves for shopping at Walmarts and their brethren. That is why there is no money in the local communities anymore - because there is no middle class! And how did the middle class disappear? By the Walmartization of America.

Oh yeah, lest I forget, Wal-Mart is "job creator." Never mind that it has put thousands of small businesses into the refuse bin of history, it's given millions of Americans crappy minimum wage jobs with no benefits! So what happens? They get public assistance! That means everyone else is paying into their means of support. And since they're too poor to afford to buy things anywhere else, they shop at Wal-Mart! And where does that money go? Right into the Waltons' pockets and out of the community! The system is so perfect it's almost terrifying - and then these big billionaires have the nerve to say that raising their taxes would be socialism. Feeling the irony yet?

We are rapidly becoming a nation of paupers and billionaires. This is the same thing that happened in Ancient Rome. Think about it. By the time the Empire was really crumbling and the Vandals were breaking down the doors, the Patricians had amassed ridiculous amounts of wealth and the soldiers who were supposed to be defending the place were being paid with salt. (Hence the word salary we use today.)

Salt was a little more expensive then than it is now, but really...the wealthiest empire on earth paying you to protect it with a bag of salt? Sounds all too eerily familiar here.

See, this was OWS's original message before it became a dirty hippie fest. The super ultra rich are ruining this country by taking away all of our money and putting into their own pockets. They provide masses of crappy low level jobs that put people into the poorhouse so that they can only afford to buy products sold by the company store. No one can ever advance, and everyone becomes dependent upon each other for support. Socialism at its finest, masked as capitalism.

You trolling, right?

[NickTheCage]

Pensions are a senior obligation. Not sure if it's been tested in court vs debt payment. Any muni in this position has probably declared bankruptcy.

It's all irrelevant anyhow. Thank god this and other instances across the country are just the beginning as we will see municipalities being forced to cut spending or filing for bankruptcy. When you can't print money there are no other reasonable options.

[lemko]

I'll bet the Walmarts of Scranton are making plenty of damned money, and shipping it all of into the pockets of the Walton family, who make more in fifteen minutes than any of their employees make in a year.

Everybody wants to point the fingers at the unions or the workers...or at the taxpayers or non taxpayers, or at the small business owners, or at the local thugs, or the welfare system, so forth and so on. But so few people are sharp enough to point the finger at themselves for shopping at Walmarts and their brethren. That is why there is no money in the local communities anymore - because there is no middle class! And how did the middle class disappear? By the Walmartization of America.

Oh yeah, lest I forget, Wal-Mart is "job creator." Never mind that it has put thousands of small businesses into the refuse bin of history, it's given millions of Americans crappy minimum wage jobs with no benefits! So what happens? They get public assistance! That means everyone else is paying into their means of support. And since they're too poor to afford to buy things anywhere else, they shop at Wal-Mart! And where does that money go? Right into the Waltons' pockets and out of the community! The system is so perfect it's almost terrifying - and then these big billionaires have the nerve to say that raising their taxes would be socialism. Feeling the irony yet?

We are rapidly becoming a nation of paupers and billionaires. This is the same thing that happened in Ancient Rome. Think about it. By the time the Empire was really crumbling and the Vandals were breaking down the doors, the Patricians had amassed ridiculous amounts of wealth and the soldiers who were supposed to be defending the place were being paid with salt. (Hence the word salary we use today.)

Salt was a little more expensive then than it is now, but really...the wealthiest empire on earth paying you to protect it with a bag of salt? Sounds all too eerily familiar here.

See, this was OWS's original message before it became a dirty hippie fest. The super ultra rich are ruining this country by taking away all of our money and putting into their own pockets. They provide masses of crappy low level jobs that put people into the poorhouse so that they can only afford to buy products sold by the company store. No one can ever advance, and everyone becomes dependent upon each other for support. Socialism at its finest, masked as capitalism.

Lots of folks who work at Wal~Mart are themselves too poor to shop there, hence dollar stores. I avoid Wal~Mart like the plague. Trouble is, just about EVERY store, even upscale ones, are filled with products made in third world sweatshops. My Dad lost his job of 24 years at age 60 and ended up working at a Lowe's for a while. He commented, "If everthing in this store was made here, nobody would be out of work!"

[NickTheCage]

Lots of folks who work at Wal~Mart are themselves too poor to shop there, hence dollar stores. I avoid Wal~Mart like the plague. Trouble is, just about EVERY store, even upscale ones, are filled with products made in third world sweatshops. My Dad lost his job of 24 years at age 60 and ended up working at a Lowe's for a while. He commented, "If everthing in this store was made here, nobody would be out of work!"

Did you believe him?

[fishcatch]

I'm going to do Nick The Cage the benefit of being blunt.

You're a tool.


Nothing more to say. Have a good life.

[NickTheCage]

I'm going to do Nick The Cage the benefit of being blunt.

You're a tool.


Nothing more to say. Have a good life.

That is some deep thought right there but as they say .. insults are the last refuge of someone who is intellectually deficient

[thoth]

I have to admit that I will be able to see humor, if only for a moment, in the PFT drones short-circuiting if their pay is cut to minimum wage. However I am not sure I would be laughing if the same happened to our police and firefighters.

I wouldn't be that happy knowing that PFT members were making minimum wage to teach kids in one of the roughest school districts in the country. Generally you get better results for people that have to do a crappy job if you, you know, compensate them.

[NickTheCage]

I wouldn't be that happy knowing that PFT members were making minimum wage to teach kids in one of the roughest school districts in the country. Generally you get better results for people that have to do a crappy job if you, you know, compensate them.

Totally agree that the more money we spend on schooling the better the results.
Look at the wonders that spending $27,000 per pupil has done in the District of Columbia.

[five apples]

Did you believe him?

The average Walmart employee is paid terribly and does not collect benefits, it isn't an unknown mystery. They also employee 1% of the American Workforce.

Forbes magazine, polling business executives (not employees) has ranked Wal-Mart among the best 100 corporations to work for. Yet the employees on average take home pay of under $250 a week. The salary for full-time employees (called "associates") is $6 to $7.50 an hour for 28-40 hours a week, which is typical in the discount retail industry. This pay scale places employees with families below the poverty line, with the majority of employees' children qualifying for free lunch at school. When closely examined, this amounts to a form of corporate welfare, as the taxpayer subsidizes the low salaries. One-third are part-time employees - limited to less than 28 hours of work per week - and are not eligible for benefits.

What annoys me so much about Wal-Mart is that the American tax payer indirectly subsidizes their business model.

PBS - STORE WARS: Wal-Mart Business Practices

[raider.adam]

The problem with this and the reason it isn't funny is that even the most ardent small government person supports government having police and fire fighters. And if first responders quit and go somewhere else, it isn't like they are going to rehire new personnel at minimum wage. It is now a public safety issue.

You trolling, right?

[billpa]

The problem with this and the reason it isn't funny is that even the most ardent small government person supports government having police and fire fighters. And if first responders quit and go somewhere else, it isn't like they are going to rehire new personnel at minimum wage. It is now a public safety issue.

+1

Most Libertarians will say that the armed services, the courts and police departments are essential government services. Nick may not think so but that doesn't matter, if put to a vote those services would be kept by about 95-99 % of Americans. The question then becomes: how much are people who do these things worth?
In a free market society I'd suspect it would be more than minimum wage.
Having said all this it's obviously a very funny story up in Scranton. Laugh-out-loud stuff, for sure.
Nick, keep the comedy coming...in times like these we could all do with a smile from time to time.