Click Here to See How Much Your Property Taxes Will Go Up

[ArcticSplash]

Green's AVI calculator:
Want To Know How Much Your Property Tax Will Get Jacked Up? - Philadelinquency

[annie]

More than double or more than triple. Expected.

[gren]

The spreadsheet puts "Proposed Admin No Smoothing" at 1.463% of actual value. I remember Squilla talking about 1% of actual value. I guess that's the problem that you can't really discuss millage in terms of revenue neutral until you know the aggregate value of all parcels.

Here's Philly Clout's article on Green's proposal.

[NickTheCage]

More than double or more than triple. Expected.

Does that bother you?

[annie]

Does that bother you?

Nope.

[seand]

How are we supposed to judge whether our "actual value" estimate is the same one the OCP will send out?

[NickTheCage]

Nope.

Why not?

[hkp]

I have 9.5 years to go on my tax abatement. I'll worry about it in 2022.

[raider.adam]

How are we supposed to judge whether our "actual value" estimate is the same one the OCP will send out?

You mean OPA? We don't and that is one of the problems with what Nutter is doing. He wants us to give him the benefit of the doubt the numbers will be right.

[seand]

Why not?

Because its better to tag the bill to something that at least has some relation to something objectively compare it to. Because part of the reason ours is going up is because a lot of other people's are going down. Because the more reality-based pricing for folks leaving houses empty on our block is going to give the last couple of abandonneds more of an incentive to actually fix or sell their empty house they inheritted, not to toy around with "meaning to" forever. Because good schools do cost money and people will likely value something a little more once they pay the "real price" for it.

These are guesses on my part.

[seand]

You mean OPA? We don't and that is one of the problems with what Nutter is doing. He wants us to give him the benefit of the doubt the numbers will be right.

If they are roughly right but say 10% off one way or the other it has a tremendous impact on this formula.

I'm just saying that minus the most important piece of information, this tool is not that super accurate.

[NickTheCage]

Because its better to tag the bill to something that at least has some relation to something objectively compare it to. Because part of the reason ours is going up is because a lot of other people's are going down.

I’m just asking b/ I live in the burbs .. whose property taxes are going down?

Because the more reality-based pricing for folks leaving houses empty on our block is going to give the last couple of abandonneds more of an incentive to actually fix or sell their empty house they inheritted, not to toy around with "meaning to" forever

How does raising taxes give an owner of an abandoned home (or investor) and incentive to invest (fix up) said house and sell it? Doesn’t the higher tax bill increase the cost of owning the home?

Because good schools do cost money and people will likely value something a little more once they pay the "real price" for it.

Does throwing more money at a problem automatically increase the quality of the problem?

[NickTheCage]

I have 9.5 years to go on my tax abatement. I'll worry about it in 2022.

Why worry?

Doesn't higher taxes benefit society?

[raider.adam]

If they are roughly right but say 10% off one way or the other it has a tremendous impact on this formula.

I'm just saying that minus the most important piece of information, this tool is not that super accurate.

It was never claimed to be an official tool. It is not based on official assement numbers. It is for people to get an idea of what is taking place and how different pieces of legislation could affect them.

I’m just asking b/ I live in the burbs .. whose property taxes are going down?

The people who have been over assessed.

Does throwing more money at a problem automatically increase the quality of the problem?

The assessments are a separate issue from the increased taxes Nutter wants.

[seand]

I’m just asking b/ I live in the burbs .. whose property taxes are going down?

Everybody in the non-gentrifying neighborhoods. Lots of NE Philly.

How does raising taxes give an owner of an abandoned home (or investor) and incentive to invest (fix up) said house and sell it? Doesn’t the higher tax bill increase the cost of the home?

It increases the cost to let it sit considerably. Annie or my taxes might double (gentrifying neighborhood, purchases in the last 5 years) but the heirs who have been letting their relative's old house sit empty for 30 years will suddenly see their lets say $500 tax bill go up 6 or 7 fold to something closer to what they pay in the suburbs and they have a strong incentive to no continue to blow off unloading it to someone who does want to fix it and live there.

Does throwing more money at a problem automatically increase the quality of the problem?

No but previous mismanagement and debt does negate that per-pupil funding is part of current problem. These are drastic times for the school district and while we differ on the solution, quality education costs money - period. Politically its unlikely the state is going to return to a system where it compensates for poorer non-suburban school districts as much as it did under Rendell any time soon. Annie is a big education advocate.

Also many folks feel like Philly shifting some of its tax burden to something stable like property taxes and away from wage and business taxes will stop the loss of jobs.

[NickTheCage]

The assessments are a separate issue from the increased taxes Nutter wants.

I was just addressing seand when he said good schools do cost money

[annie]

These are guesses on my part.

Good ones, too.

How does raising taxes give an owner of an abandoned home (or investor) and incentive to invest (fix up) said house and sell it? Doesn’t the higher tax bill increase the cost of owning the home?

There are a couple houses on our block (Sean and I live on the same block) that are vacant and the owning families have been dicking around for years or decades "renovating" them. Not even the housing bubble motivated them to make real progress. A double or triple in taxes may be the final kick in the pants for them to give up and sell already. I'm frankly tired of people driving in from Jersey once a summer to cut the grass and tell me how nice the neighborhood "used' to be with its delis and dancehalls meanwhile it is their house that's a mess.

The main reason it doesn't bother me is that I knew this would happen eventually when I bought the house and factored that in when making the purchase. I have no desire to own a house in the suburbs nor could I really afford to.

Taxes have never been something that gets my blood pressure up. They just don't. I'm sure I seem as alien to you as you do to me.

Does throwing more money at a problem automatically increase the quality of the problem?

Not automatically, no. But if spent wisely it can help and I do advocate for the district to put more of its money where it counts which is the classroom.

[raider.adam]

Not automatically, no. But if spent wisely it can help and I do advocate for the district to put more of its money where it counts which is the classroom.

Or into the Parks Activity Fund

[seand]

There are a couple houses on our block (Sean and I live on the same block) that are vacant and the owning families have been dicking around for years or decades "renovating" them. Not even the housing bubble motivated them to make real progress. A double or triple in taxes may be the final kick in the pants for them to give up and sell already. I'm frankly tired of people driving in from Jersey once a summer to cut the grass and tell me how nice the neighborhood "used' to be with its delis and dancehalls meanwhile it is their house that's a mess.

Way off topic but were you around when the one family complained about the raised bed flower garden that our neighbors had guerilla planted in their front lawn? They freaked out and compared the wooden frame of raised bed to the "slave ships my ancestors came on", even though the sides had been painted in bright colors by some of the older kids on the block (who on our block are predominantly African American, with a more mixed batch of todler-aged kids). I would not mind at all if those absentee heirs sold.

[NickTheCage]

There are a couple houses on our block (Sean and I live on the same block) that are vacant and the owning families have been dicking around for years or decades "renovating" them. Not even the housing bubble motivated them to make real progress. A double or triple in taxes may be the final kick in the pants for them to give up and sell already. I'm frankly tired of people driving in from Jersey once a summer to cut the grass and tell me how nice the neighborhood "used' to be with its delis and dancehalls meanwhile it is their house that's a mess.

Well believe it or not I do I agree on the incentive to fix up and sell it b/ now it is more expensive to let it sit there. You still have the problem of pricing yourself out of the market b/ the home becomes to expensive for someone to own

Taxes have never been something that gets my blood pressure up. They just don't. I'm sure I seem as alien to you as you do to me.

Yes very alien (lol).

Not automatically, no. But if spent wisely it can help and I do advocate for the district to put more of its money where it counts which is the classroom.

When you say putting money in the classroom, what do you mean by that?

Seand wrote something abt you being involved in schools. If you don't mind me asking what do you do for schools?