Is the Sheriffs Office Ever Going To Get Their Site Back Up?

[ArcticSplash]

Ha, I actually came back to the thread to post something similar. That said, what kind of morons do they have working in IT that don't post a "site is down for maintenance" page in lieu of keeping the search pages still up?

Seriously...does anyone know if the city manages their site internally? Or do they have a contractor? If so, who is it? Same question for the Sherriff's site.

I think the BRT is internal since its on phila.gov. The sheriff's office though was external.

I'm guessing they'll have it fixed monday.

[loveisnoise]

Well, on a serious note? All of this is bull****.

The simple fact is that no philadelphia governmental agency should have a separate website or separate format. This isn't about transparency as much as it is about usability. For about a year safari browsers couldn't utilize the city legislation section and everyone was blaming each other when I inquired.

There should be one unified website with the requirements that all forms be editable pdfs, html forms for inquiries, etc. No domains. Every department should be a subdomain or hierarchy of the phila.gov website.

I hate to say it because I always hate being compared to them-but NYC seems to do it well with their site. Our way just leads to inflated contracts and fluffy favors via contracts.

[raider.adam]

Well, on a serious note? All of this is bull****.

The simple fact is that no philadelphia governmental agency should have a separate website or separate format. This isn't about transparency as much as it was usability. For about a year safari browsers couldn't utilize the city legislation section and everyone was blaming each other when I inquired.

There should be one unified website with the requirements that all forms be editable pdfs, html forms for inquiries, etc. No domains. Every department should be a subdomain or hierarchy of the phila.gov website.

I hate to say it because I always hate being compared to them-but NYC seems to do it well with their site. Our way just leads to inflated contracts and fluffy favors via contracts.

You're correct. It should all fall under OIT. sheriff.phila.gov, commissioners.phila.gov.

[ArcticSplash]

Well, on a serious note? All of this is bull****.

The simple fact is that no philadelphia governmental agency should have a separate website or separate format. This isn't about transparency as much as it is about usability. For about a year safari browsers couldn't utilize the city legislation section and everyone was blaming each other when I inquired.

There should be one unified website with the requirements that all forms be editable pdfs, html forms for inquiries, etc. No domains. Every department should be a subdomain or hierarchy of the phila.gov website.

I hate to say it because I always hate being compared to them-but NYC seems to do it well with their site. Our way just leads to inflated contracts and fluffy favors via contracts.

Even more wild: The PA Attorney general is domain squatting on: ---attorneygeneral.gov---

[raider.adam]

Even more wild: The PA Attorney general is domain squatting on: ---attorneygeneral.gov---

How do you consider that domain squatting? They are actively using it.

[ArcticSplash]

How do you consider that domain squatting? They are actively using it.

Probably behind the scenes they are using GoDaddy Marketplace to auction it off to the richest state willing to buy it. #sarcasm

[BarryG]

You're correct. It should all fall under OIT. sheriff.phila.gov, commissioners.phila.gov.

I was actually talking to someone about this today and the row offices themselves don't even know if they fall under OIT jurisdiction or not. OIT is so f'd up, slow and bureaucratic that no one wants to work with them if they can avoid it. Supposedly the city will be all upgraded to a modern and more-unified system at some point in the future (right now the technology you can use to host a site is very restrictive), but it's taking forever. AFAIK departments will still be bidding their own contracts though they may have the option for an internally developed site, that no one will want to use of course because it will take forever.

The Sheriff's Dept is a special case in that they wasted $1,000,000 on a website that did not function as advertised and no longer exists.

[raider.adam]

I was actually talking to someone about this today and the row offices themselves don't even know if they fall under OIT jurisdiction or not. OIT is so f'd up, slow and bureaucratic that no one wants to work with them if they can avoid it. Supposedly the city will be all upgraded to a modern and more-unified system at some point in the future (right now the technology you can use to host a site is very restrictive), but it's taking forever. AFAIK departments will still be bidding their own contracts though they may have the option for an internally developed site, that no one will want to use of course because it will take forever.

The Sheriff's Dept is a special case in that they wasted $1,000,000 on a website that did not function as advertised and no longer exists.

OIT would definitely encompass all executive branch departments. I don't know what the policy is for independent elected offices.

[loveisnoise]

Well surprise surprise. Turns out that the owner of the domain is politically connected through papers and unions, then became the editor for the phillytribune, and is dead. That domain is going to be hard to get back unless they get ahold of the other partner which probably won't happen.

And their website appears to be a bunch of made up hoopla. How many graphic designers get another graphic design company to make their logo/image?! HAHAHAHA!

And how did he get a contract to do the site?
"As the business, at 1219 Spruce St., grew, Mr. Cassell became involved in city politics. In 1991, he was an adviser to Democratic mayoral candidate Lucien Blackwell. In 1999, Mr. Cassell contributed to and served as treasurer on Sheriff John Green's reelection campaign, and his company produced print ads for the effort. He was a longtime supporter of Mayor Street and other politicians."

[ArcticSplash]

Also not working: The parcel address tool on the Philadelphia Zoning Map

I'm guessing there's something going on with the City's master parcel and BRT files this weekend.


I was working on a YouTube video to show how to always get the address correct on a property, 100% of the time--but without that feature working on the zoning map I can't do it.

Grr.

[Bob_Head]

How do you consider that domain squatting? They are actively using it.

Yep. It works for me....which is more than you can say for the office its self.

[Jayfar]

Well surprise surprise. Turns out that the owner of the domain is politically connected through papers and unions, then became the editor for the phillytribune, and is dead. That domain is going to be hard to get back unless they get ahold of the other partner which probably won't happen.

Might not be too difficult, since they used a role email address for the admin contact.

Administrative Contact:
Cassell, James info@REACHINC.COM
Reach Communications Specialists, Inc.
1219 Spruce St.
Philadelphia, PA 19107
US
(215) 772-1925 fax: (215) 772-1930

[ArcticSplash]

Might not be too difficult, since they used a role email address for the admin contact.

Administrative Contact:
Cassell, James info@REACHINC.COM
Reach Communications Specialists, Inc.
1219 Spruce St.
Philadelphia, PA 19107
US
(215) 772-1925 fax: (215) 772-1930

I'll contact them and the Sheriff's Office and see what kinda response I get.

[ArcticSplash]

The Sheriff’s Office: One Big F**king Fail | Philadelinquency

[ArcticSplash]

OK it's back online.

Also: I have borrowed Tim W's OPA search tool and put it on PDQ. It has the "search by owner" feature which you can't get on OPA's website:

Property Lookup - Philadelinquency

[Tartan69]

I agree with LIN and Adam that all city services should be under one high-level phila.gov domain for consistency. That said, I'd rather have a working website that is a one-off than something that is integrated but never works. I am sure to be disappointed either way though...

[raider.adam]

I agree with LIN and Adam that all city services should be under one high-level phila.gov domain for consistency. That said, I'd rather have a working website that is a one-off than something that is integrated but never works. I am sure to be disappointed either way though...

Well right. We're all making the assumption that the sites work...

[Tartan69]

Well right. We're all making the assumption that the sites work...

Well that's exactly the thing. If you have to go through a rigorous process just to get a site up and running the "right way" that is consistent and adheres to phila.gov standards, that obviously takes time. First the RFP, then the award, then formal requirements, design, development, testing, deployment. I've been down that road in the public sector on the consulting side...nothing gets done quickly. However if a line office takes the initiative to put something out there that they built quickly, then that provides at least some value while the formal process goes on behind the scenes. Granted there are negatives to this approach, but I generally feel that in the public sector, the agile "something is better than nothing" approach is WAY better than the more traditional methods.

The problem of course is politics. Is there an incentive for a mid-level government bureaucrat to pull the trigger on the agile approach and risk criticism from those that have vested interests in consistency? The more likely outcome is that they just ignore the complaints of the public (to whom they aren't nearly accountable enough) and stick with status quo.

[raider.adam]

Well that's exactly the thing. If you have to go through a rigorous process just to get a site up and running the "right way" that is consistent and adheres to phila.gov standards, that obviously takes time. First the RFP, then the award, then formal requirements, design, development, testing, deployment. I've been down that road in the public sector on the consulting side...nothing gets done quickly. However if a line office takes the initiative to put something out there that they built quickly, then that provides at least some value while the formal process goes on behind the scenes. Granted there are negatives to this approach, but I generally feel that in the public sector, the agile "something is better than nothing" approach is WAY better than the more traditional methods.

The problem of course is politics. Is there an incentive for a mid-level government bureaucrat to pull the trigger on the agile approach and risk criticism from those that have vested interests in consistency? The more likely outcome is that they just ignore the complaints of the public (to whom they aren't nearly accountable enough) and stick with status quo.

I don't agree with the "something is better than nothing" approach. It's odd to take that position in a thread about how the Sheriff's office gave the site design out to people robbing the sheriff's office. In my company, the Claims Department can't just go and host their own website.

In addition, it seems an odd position for a government agency to say "I don't like the rules made by government, so I am going to do my own thing". If the procedures are too cumbersome, the solution really isn't to just say "screw the procedures". Keep in mind IT isn't just setting up websites and installing Windows 7. A lot of it now a days is security and data integrity, not things to be taken lightly.

[BarryG]

Well that's exactly the thing. If you have to go through a rigorous process just to get a site up and running the "right way" that is consistent and adheres to phila.gov standards, that obviously takes time. First the RFP, then the award, then formal requirements, design, development, testing, deployment. I've been down that road in the public sector on the consulting side...nothing gets done quickly. However if a line office takes the initiative to put something out there that they built quickly, then that provides at least some value while the formal process goes on behind the scenes. Granted there are negatives to this approach, but I generally feel that in the public sector, the agile "something is better than nothing" approach is WAY better than the more traditional methods.

The problem of course is politics. Is there an incentive for a mid-level government bureaucrat to pull the trigger on the agile approach and risk criticism from those that have vested interests in consistency? The more likely outcome is that they just ignore the complaints of the public (to whom they aren't nearly accountable enough) and stick with status quo.

There are potential liability issues with data security too, which fall on OIT if you use them, so it's more than just risking criticism. In theory if you give OIT static HTML they will put it up within a week. I don't know how accurate that is, but while the new site is under construction, there is really no reason that some Sheriff dept staffer can't put the listings into Microsoft Word and Save As HTML, and give to OIT to put somewhere. It would look like shît, but would be better than nothing.