The PGW Money shuffle

[billy ross]

But bad people sell natural gas. You want to give money to bad people?

To the best of my knowledge over 99% of natural gas consumed in the USA comes from Nafta countries, and we only have the capacity to import from beyond NAFTA about 3% of annual demand. How do you get your idea that bad people sell natural gas? We are pretty much divorced from the world natural gas market (thankfully - I wouldn't want to depend upon the Russians and their ilk for my heating needs).

[billy ross]

then that's really disturbing they have so many employees. who are they and what do they do?
BTW-PGW has improved over the years, I'm not arguing that point. Every move I've done has been easier, though it's worth noting that PECO has been easy to transfer accounts for years. go online, fill out form, submit, receive confirmation email. nonetheless, PGW level of service is something the PWD should strive for.
when do we know hell has frozen over? when billyross admits something negative occurred in Philadelphia.

My point is that PGW seems to be outsourcing and streamlining, which is what it needs to be doing.

I agree with you - PGW is late to the party in getting its act together, but it is in the process of doing so. It is still not at the level of PE, but it is alot closer to PE than it used to be.

So you want me to admit a place where the city is still a mess? Water Revenue Bureau. I have already admitted it. Just yesterday I had a fascinating conversation with the water department guy in charge of pumping and keeping water pressure in the mains what it needs to be (He powerwalks along Kelly Drive every day at lunchtime). He travels around the country giving lectures about pumps and pressure management. He told me that when the EPA wants to implement a new water rule they first run it by Philly's labs, which are the best in the country (and probably the world), to see how smart or dumb the rule will be. The PWD is top-notch (at least in water quality maintenance). He even acknowledged that we are pushing the science by becoming obsessed with watershed maintenance, because they can't get any more out of the water by treating it; on the contrary it is easier to work on cleaning up the water before it even gets to PWD. However, the WRB is still an inefficient, incompetent mess which is unreconstituted.

[eldondre]

My point is that PGW seems to be outsourcing and streamlining, which is what it needs to be doing.

unless it's a lockbox. We both agree PGW has improved, I don't agree that it should shift it's debt onto some other taxpayer agency's books, esp when it hasn't done much to rein in its costs (of course, I oppose the shift regardless). If it has the highest employee to customer ratio, then it hasn't done much, moderate outsourcing or not. It's entirely possible to outsource and not downsize your company.

[raider.adam]

To the best of my knowledge over 99% of natural gas consumed in the USA comes from Nafta countries, and we only have the capacity to import from beyond NAFTA about 3% of annual demand. How do you get your idea that bad people sell natural gas? We are pretty much divorced from the world natural gas market (thankfully - I wouldn't want to depend upon the Russians and their ilk for my heating needs).

But remember - if we consume more natural gas, it drives up the global price of natural gas which means the other bad people make more money.

That was the line of thought for petroleum.

And if we consume more natural gas, we may need to import more (and most of our oil is from nafta countries).

And if cars drive on natural gas instead of petroleum, they still cause car crashes.

[raider.adam]

unless it's a lockbox. We both agree PGW has improved, I don't agree that it should shift it's debt onto some other taxpayer agency's books, esp when it hasn't done much to rein in its costs (of course, I oppose the shift regardless). If it has the highest employee to customer ratio, then it hasn't done much, moderate outsourcing or not. It's entirely possible to outsource and not downsize your company.

I agree. Putting the debt on someone else's books is smoke and mirrors. For them to allow it, they should make sure that those numbers are included on PGWs financial reports.

[eldondre]

But remember - if we consume more natural gas, it drives up the global price of natural gas which means the other bad people make more money.

That was the line of thought for petroleum.

And if we consume more natural gas, we may need to import more (and most of our oil is from nafta countries).

And if cars drive on natural gas instead of petroleum, they still cause car crashes.

actually, if the price goes up, people in Pennsylvania make more money. natural gas and coal are two things we have plenty of.

[raider.adam]

actually, if the price goes up, people in Pennsylvania make more money. natural gas and coal are two things we have plenty of.

I didn't say they wouldn't. Just pointing out that "bad people" who produce natural gas would make money too.

[Eames]

Like so many other debt ridden institutions in Philadelphia, PGW needs to start by collecting what is owed to it. The list goes on and on.... Water Revenue Bureau, Department of Taxation, etc etc. Start by with holding back PGW debts from city workers. I'm tired of getting rate increases because I am a payer of my bills. The deadbeats don't care about rate increases. They don't pay their bills anyway.

This whole city needs to get tough on collections. They should wisely outsource collections activities.

[MayfairMeat]

As a PGW bondholder, I'm quite happy PGW still has bond debt lying out there til 2035 (at least all the notes that I've found on TD Ameritrade). Their 6-8% they're paying now on some of the junkiest notes sure beats the hell out of a CD from any bank.

I collect more in receipts in PGW bond coupon payments than I pay out to PGW in my monthly gas bill.


PGW can go ahead and jack up rates for all I care. That just means more Philadelphians will de-gas their houses and switch to electric, so the ratepayer base will shrink and your bills will go even higher--precipitating their need to float more debt to the point where residential gas will all but disappear from the landscape.


I'll just continue to collect PGW's money and use a couple of space heaters during the winter to keep my gas bill at 2 digits.


Yours Truly,

PGW Creditor/Landlord

[raider.adam]

As a PGW bondholder, I'm quite happy PGW still has bond debt lying out there til 2035 (at least all the notes that I've found on TD Ameritrade). Their 6-8% they're paying now on some of the junkiest notes sure beats the hell out of a CD from any bank.

I collect more in receipts in PGW bond coupon payments than I pay out to PGW in my monthly gas bill.


PGW can go ahead and jack up rates for all I care. That just means more Philadelphians will de-gas their houses and switch to electric, so the ratepayer base will shrink and your bills will go even higher--precipitating their need to float more debt to the point where residential gas will all but disappear from the landscape.


I'll just continue to collect PGW's money and use a couple of space heaters during the winter to keep my gas bill at 2 digits.


Yours Truly,

PGW Creditor/Landlord

I think PGW should declare bankruptcy and have Obama come in and only give you 10 cents on the dollar for your bonds and give the rest to the unions like he did for GM.

[billy ross]

But remember - if we consume more natural gas, it drives up the global price of natural gas which means the other bad people make more money.

That was the line of thought for petroleum.

And if we consume more natural gas, we may need to import more (and most of our oil is from nafta countries).

And if cars drive on natural gas instead of petroleum, they still cause car crashes.

Cars driving on natural gas is a red herring, in that the present infrastructure is so small and isn't really growing. If and when it catches on it will become an issue. 99% of roadworthy motor vehicles in the USA run on petroleum - either diesel or gas (by roadworthy I am excluding electric golf carts, which some towns use for local transport). For some reason you insist on bringing up things like cars running on moondust and the like, as if it makes a difference in the present market.

Natural gas is quite expensive to transport across oceans. Our domestic price is multiples of the world price, and at one point people believed that we could import it to satisfy increased domestic demand. However, we then opened up new fields and now we have decades worth of supply which can easily meet domestic demand. Meanwhile there isn't much infrastructure to transport natural gas across oceans, and the domestic US price has been driven down sufficiently that our price is below the world price of liquified natural gas. Thus the US price of natural gas is both below and above the world price of natural gas, divorcing us from international markets.