Tankless water heaters. Any opinion?

[The Philly Boy]

I've only heard awesome things about them. Everytime the tankless water heater commercial comes on tv, my husband gets a woody about it. I'd talk to the manufacturer, as well as a plumber who is hip to modern technology. I can imagine an old-school plumber trying to talk you out of it because it may be out of his realm of expertise.

Are we to understand that your husband's primary source of woodies from commericials instead of you?

[Red Rooster]

No such thing as a HWH.

HWH = Hot Water Heater

[The Philly Boy]

HWH = Hot Water Heater

Yes I know what you meant, but there is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater, they are Water Heaters. If the water was hot, there would be no need to heat it. A water heater heats cold water. Don't feel bad, most peoplel make the same mistake.

[Red Rooster]

What kind of roof size do you have? Straight-through? Standard Airlite?

I was wondering if I buy a larger corner straight-through or a porchfront... how much energy I could generate by covering the entire roof (save for the gas flu chimney and the bathroom skylight)... with PV.

Would it be enough to run my fridge and the lights off of it?


How big of a battery would I need to install in the basement and how long could I stay off the mains and stay on solar?



Or will I save money by partitioning circuits in the house to Solar PV and keeping the hgih-load stuff (fridge, dryer) on the mains while ceiling fans, lights and computer equipment run off solar?

I have a single, split level with a southern facing roof.

Many people have the same misconception about Solar Power. You would still be hooked to the grid. While the sun is producing energy, you will see your regular meter spinning backwards (depending on the amout of PV you have). You will also have a PV Meter before your utility meter showing the Kw's produced by your panels.

PV does not distinguish between high load and low load. It merely produces energy. As for battery backup, most homes do not have enough roof space to provide 100% of your daily use let alone enough to store excess power.

[CapnMarko]

In this area PV is not very efficient but solar water heating is ... you might want to look into that as an alternative. In combo with a tankless water heater in series as a backup it can not only just give you hot showers but run through radiant heating system heat at least your top floor very nicely and if logistically possible even heat most of the home.

Alternate Solar Thermal & Radiant Heating Combo Systems | 100K House Blog

[billy ross]

No such thing as a HWH.

That would be sort of like a toast toaster. You don't toast toast. You toast bread.

The appliance in question is an automatic water heater. If you are still confused, see 'An Enchanted April', either in play form or in movie form.

[billy ross]

Yes I know what you meant, but there is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater, they are Water Heaters. If the water was hot, there would be no need to heat it. A water heater heats cold water. Don't feel bad, most peoplel make the same mistake.

Now the Philly Boy is slipping, as well as his hero Sandy. Contrary to fact requires Subjunctive Mood, not Indicative Mood. Hang your head in shame.

Speculation, wishes, and things which are otherwise not true call for the Subjunctive Mood. Indicative Mood involves facts and things which are otherwise true. Would that I were an English Professor!

[The Philly Boy]

Now the Philly Boy is slipping, as well as his hero Sandy. Contrary to fact requires Subjunctive Mood, not Indicative Mood. Hang your head in shame.

Speculation, wishes, and things which are otherwise not true call for the Subjunctive Mood. Indicative Mood involves facts and things which are otherwise true. Would that I were an English Professor!

Allow me to check my mood ring.

[NE19149]

Yes I know what you meant, but there is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater, they are Water Heaters. If the water was hot, there would be no need to heat it. A water heater heats cold water. Don't feel bad, most peoplel make the same mistake.

It's simply what we CALL it... dammit....!
A Hot Water Heater!

[Red Rooster]

Yes I know what you meant, but there is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater, they are Water Heaters. If the water was hot, there would be no need to heat it. A water heater heats cold water. Don't feel bad, most peoplel make the same mistake.

thanks smart azz! LOL

[Red Rooster]

In this area PV is not very efficient but solar water heating is ... you might want to look into that as an alternative. In combo with a tankless water heater in series as a backup it can not only just give you hot showers but run through radiant heating system heat at least your top floor very nicely and if logistically possible even heat most of the home.

Alternate Solar Thermal & Radiant Heating Combo Systems | 100K House Blog

PV is very efficient in this area, since it works from light, not heat. The #1 issue with PV is the cost. That's why the Fed and State Governments offer so many incentives. Check out.... DSIRE: DSIRE Home

[CapnMarko]

It's simply what we CALL it... dammit....!
A Hot Water Heater!

Exactly, grammar is the last refuge of scoundrels. If novels, plays, television, movies, and other forms of entertainment which originate in written form followed the caprice of the laws of language they would be un-read/watchable!

Let alone if we actually spoke in such a fashion.

But anyway I get it, it was just some good hearted stone busting.

[The Philly Boy]

It's simply what we CALL it... dammit....!
A Hot Water Heater!

Not a problem, if you want to sound uneducated, feel free.

[billy ross]

Oh, I wish I had a barrel of rum and sugar three hundred pound, I'd put it in in the college bell and stir it round and round...

YouTube - Son of a Gun- Dartmouth Aires [A Cappella]

Note the reference to the illustrious Crimson.


I'm a sonofa sonofa sonofa sonofa sonofa gun for beer...

[HogIslandGrip]

Regarding people that are PARANOID about water heaters LEAKING:

You know, there ARE devices to prevent major flooding...
There's a solonoid-operated shutoff valve that detects even a tiny layer of water on the basement floor, and shuts off the flow to the heater, as well as setting off an audible alarm.

I forgot to mention this, as well. Saw it on one of the TV home repair/improvement shows.

And todays tank heaters are quite efficient.

Your temperature is set too high. Lower the temperature and your shower will have less cold, more hot water, and you will be less likely to fall below the minimum threshold. Alternatively, remove the flow restricter from your showerhead and take a real shower - that will increase the gpm through the infernal machine.

THis is my new mantra. Minimum flow rate. Repeat. I'v tried everything with this machine, including setting the temp at the lowest, and still, it comes back to flow rate. I may yet remove the restrictor, however. If that doesn't work, a reenactment of the copier scene from Office Space is in order.

Tankless heaters have non-ferrous heat exchangers. These are much less prone to rot out and fail. On both tank-type and instantaneous heaters one can buy valves to install on the feeds which measure the flow rate and shut down if an equal amount does not run both into and out of the unit (like a lifted relief valve or a failed tank). These are great when there are living spaces immediately below the awh. In addition, when a 40 gallon heater fails, it doesn't spew out any more water than an instantaneous tank would. The tank never actually drains; the water which leaks out is replaced with new water coming in from the street. Even when you secure the incoming water, the tanks don't really drain, as the water is locked in until the vacuum is broken.

This is a better way of explaining what I was trying to write down thread.

[GMonkey]

Are we to understand that your husband's primary source of woodies from commericials instead of you?

Certainly not his primary source, just an additional source...among many (guns, video games, tankless water heater commercials, and me).

[The Philly Boy]

Certainly not his primary source, just an additional source...among many (guns, video games, tankless water heater commercials, and me).

Interesting that you put yourself at the end of the list. Sounds like he has some sort of problem. I would be glad to put you at the top of my list!

[cerberus413]

What kind of roof size do you have? Straight-through? Standard Airlite?

I was wondering if I buy a larger corner straight-through or a porchfront... how much energy I could generate by covering the entire roof (save for the gas flu chimney and the bathroom skylight)... with PV.

Would it be enough to run my fridge and the lights off of it?


How big of a battery would I need to install in the basement and how long could I stay off the mains and stay on solar?



Or will I save money by partitioning circuits in the house to Solar PV and keeping the hgih-load stuff (fridge, dryer) on the mains while ceiling fans, lights and computer equipment run off solar?

Flat roofs are no problem with PV panels.....just face them south and calculate the suns angle....take the min/max (summer vs winter) and set them in between...or have a solar tracker setup.

As far as batteries go.....AGM's and gel-celled are the best.....I suggest Deka since they are in Yeadon.

[supersupper]

" hot- 'having or giving off heat' "

tap water can melt ice. hot water heaters heat water even hotter than it already is.

its a matter of degrees.

[Brooke]

As for tankless water heaters, mentioned them to my Master Plumber. He went on for 20 minutes with the abbreviated version of how much they suck. They cost more than a regular water heater and are no more efficient and when they break, and apparently the way they are built they are prone to break in a shorter time than a regular water heater, they are very expensive to fix because not many people know how to fix them.

He said optimally, you'd install a full sized water heater if you want point of source heat. Cheaper all the way around but of course, would take up more space.

This is the gist. He went on and on about time in Europe where they all use them only because they don't have the space, yada yada and they all suck there too.

If you'd like his dissertation, I will happily refer you to him. (Of course, he's a fantastic plumber and the only guy I'd trust with any plumbing of mine after he's been working miracles for my house and my clients for years.)