what do to when a job ends with demo?

**pjrb** · 07-30-2012, 10:17 AM

What is our recourse if we hire a company to redo our front porch and steps and all they do is demo two half days over the course of 2 weeks, leaving us with a front porch of rubble for 3 weeks an no front steps for a full week?

They removed our front porch steps one Monday, promising they'd be back the next day and did not come back till the following Monday and did half the steps, promising to be back the next day to finish -- that was last Monday and they have yet to return. They returned my call Thursday saying the owner was sick and they'd be back Friday or Saturday-- but all they did was drop off a ton of wood on our side walkway Saturday morning, almost completely blocking the path to/from the back of the house and now our family - including two small children and two dogs (one of which is crippled) either have to walk over rocks and rubble to use the front door or climb over sloppily piled wood to get out the back door.

I could just walk two blocks down the road where they were working 1-2 days last week and again this morning to ask them, but instead when I walked down there I just smiled, said good morning and snapped away at them with my camera.

By the way, this company is Smooth Surfaces in Manayunk and they should be called "Smooth Talkers". All they do is lie. Sorry to say they were referred by someone else, and I have let that other contractor know this is happening -- which is the only reason I think they came back last monday to do our steps, yet this saga continues.

Back to my original question: what is my recourse? (Note: I paid them half the bill, and they have yet to do half the work)

And why do contractors not have to put some sort of timeframe on their 'estimates'?

**Worm** · 07-30-2012, 02:09 PM

If you really want them to finish the job, you may want to refrain from bad mouthing them on a public forum until after they are finished.

I would ask them to come over and lay down some plywood or temporary stairs or something to facilitate access to your home. I would also ask for a schedule for the remaining work.

**LUCas** · 07-30-2012, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by pjrb

And why do contractors not have to put some sort of timeframe on their 'estimates'?

Why didn't you insist on one?

**johnnie** · 07-30-2012, 02:31 PM

Lowdown on contractor down payments - chicagotribune.com

You gave way too much a down payment to keep the contractor honest. Also, why didnt you get a schedule of work to be completed in writing?

**pjrb** · 07-30-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Worm

If you really want them to finish the job, you may want to refrain from bad mouthing them on a public forum until after they are finished.

I would ask them to come over and lay down some plywood or temporary stairs or something to facilitate access to your home. I would also ask for a schedule for the remaining work.

Thanks for the reply, but I think you're missing the point -- I can't get the guys to FINISH! I didn't realize describing the experience I've had with a contractor over the past month is badmouthing. These are facts. Not accusations. Each of the three times they've been here and the two times they've returned my call, I ask what the schedule is. "What's the plan, Jim?" -- "Oh, we'll be back tomorrow...finish this that and the other and it'll be done by the end of the week". The first time (or three) someone promises you they will be back "tomorrow" and they do not show up, you give them the benefit of the doubt. The fifth time they tell you that in 3 weeks, is that not lying? So I think that all I've done is state the facts in order to ask what my options might be. Phone calls and trying to remain professional and polite on the days that they DO come has not worked. I think going on four weeks with rubble for a front porch waiting on 1.5-days worth of work has gone too far, though maybe you think that is acceptable. After having almost 30K worth of work done to my house over the past 6 years, this is the first time I've had this bad of an experience. I generally find contractors I've worked with to be reliable and conscientious so this is quite abnormal and I'm not sure how to handle it. Ironically their sign has been out front next to the rubble for the month and my neighbors, others walkign their dogs, the mailman and even the UPS guy have asked what the problem is....it's not exactly good publicity they are giving themselves!!

**johnnie** · 07-30-2012, 02:41 PM

Your only options it sounds is to get a lawyer to send them a nasty letter or keep pestering them. The lawyer will either piss them off to stop the job or get them to move on the work promised. Is there a signed contract or just the estimate?

**pjrb** · 07-30-2012, 02:47 PM

I cannot recall ever seeing an estimated completion date in writing before on any contractor's estimate -- although now I see that is required if you're certified/registered with state of PA. That is not on this generic agreement -- but it has all the other info on it, detailed description of what they'll do, the price, half due now and half at the completion of the job (but not WHEN) etc... -- and again it was very like "we'll start thursday, do this and that, Friday we'll do this and that, and then I'll come back on Monday to do the final part and that'll only take a half day and you'll be able to walk on it in a few hours, etc" -- hindsight! This guy's a local guy who was referred by someone else. The person who referred him was surprised when I filled him in last week, contacted him and is monitoring it. Like I said, I use personal references from other professionals/contractors all the time (and PhillySpeaks) whom I've had good experiences with and this is the first problem I've had.

**LUCas** · 07-30-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by pjrb

this is the first problem I've had.

Did you think you were special? Just kidding, sorry you're dealing with this. Unfortunately, it's very very very common. You've been lucky all your other times.

**Tartan69** · 07-30-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by pjrb

you give them the benefit of the doubt

Therein lies the problem. You should have obtained a contract in writing that lays out an acceptable timeframe for completion. Doesn't make what they are doing right though.

**Worm** · 07-30-2012, 03:32 PM

you're missing the point. If someone they know see this and makes them aware of these 'facts' being strewn across the internet, the odds of you getting the job finished properly are lessened. Just looking out for YOU. The goal is to get it done eventually right?

I know that a lot of contractors have been backed up due to the extreme heat.

**phrequency** · 07-30-2012, 06:49 PM

I would drop them like a hot potato, file a claim in small claims court, eat the money you already gave them because you aren't going to get that back. Bad mouth the heck out of them on every forum you can (only stating facts and not making it personal) so they can see what happens when a company treats their clients like crap. Personally, given their track record based on what you describe, I doubt that if they do finish it's going to be a good job. Get another group to finish the work and let the original folks know you are going to get someone else so they understand this is what happens when you treat clients/customers like they treated you. What have you got to lose at this point anyway? It sounds like you are stuck with a pile of rubble and crap so screw them, let them take back their materials so you don't have them asking for compensation for that if it get's ugly. Contractors get sued all the time so I wouldn't worry about that, they seem to be used to it. Also, it sounds like you didn't have a schedule in writing but there was a verbal expression of when you can expect the work to commence and end and they clearly haven't lived up to that part of the agreement so I wouldn't think anyone would find you liable by breaking any kind of contract. Let the world know when companies do this, it's time to start holding people to higher standards. What was that old Twisted Sister song: "We're not gonna take it, NO we ain't gonna take it!" Good Luck

**LUCas** · 07-31-2012, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by phrequency

Also, it sounds like you didn't have a schedule in writing but there was a verbal expression of when you can expect the work to commence and end and they clearly haven't lived up to that part of the agreement so I wouldn't think anyone would find you liable by breaking any kind of contract.

I don't know. One thing I've learned from Judge Judy is that if there's any kind of written agreement, it cannot be modified or expanded upon verbally. Once any part of the agreement is in writing, only what's in writing applies.

**pjrb** · 07-31-2012, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by LUCas

I don't know. One thing I've learned from Judge Judy is that if there's any kind of written agreement, it cannot be modified or expanded upon verbally. Once any part of the agreement is in writing, only what's in writing applies.

I tend to agree-- I just wish I had found the PA Home Improvement protection act website with their guidelines for what should be in a contract -- and, notably, the list of registered contractors....

I'm not sure I want to give this guy another penny. He probably has done CLOSE to the amount I've paid him for so at this point it's not much of a loss.
We are trying to find someone else to finish the work and will wait until we move in the near future for any aggressive reputation damage -- I don't want to put my family at risk since this guy does know where we live. And I'll probably calm down by then and realize he's just a pathetic turd of an excuse for a human being.

THe Chicago tribune article is helpful and I'm tucking that away. Thanks.

**robot** · 07-31-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by johnnie

Lowdown on contractor down payments - chicagotribune.com

You gave way too much a down payment to keep the contractor honest. Also, why didnt you get a schedule of work to be completed in writing?

50% up front seems to be the standard deal when I have worked with contractors or painters in Philly. Have you been successful in negotiating less, or even no money up front?

**pjrb** · 07-31-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by robot

50% up front seems to be the standard deal when I have worked with contractors or painters in Philly. Have you been successful in negotiating less, or even no money up front?

There are no 'rules' but check out this website. I wish I had known about this a month ago:Consumers: Protecting Consumers - Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General

What are the limits on down payments or deposits?
Generally speaking a down payment of one-third of the total contract price or one-third plus the cost of special ordering materials is appropriate.
top

How should the balance be paid and when?
The law does not address how the balance should be paid. Discuss and negotiate between the consumer and contractor for incremental payments as work progresses, with a final payment upon completion.
top

**Tartan69** · 07-31-2012, 01:22 PM

FWIW I've found that Angie's List is a pretty helpful resource to have regarding contractors. Not the end-all/be-all of course, but definitely helpful.

**pjrb** · 07-31-2012, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tartan69

FWIW I've found that Angie's List is a pretty helpful resource to have regarding contractors. Not the end-all/be-all of course, but definitely helpful.

I used to be a member but found PhillyBlog (now PhillySpeaks of course) to be as helpful. Still no sign of this guy --- unbelievable.

**Eastcoast** · 07-31-2012, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by pjrb

I used to be a member but found PhillyBlog (now PhillySpeaks of course) to be as helpful. Still no sign of this guy --- unbelievable.

I think it's time to cut your losses, move the wood to the backyard and/or secure it, let the contractor know that you are finished with him and that you'll be getting another contractor since it's pretty obvious that you are a low priority. No threats, stay level headed.

He'll probably tell you he'll be there tomorrow to work on it so tell him fine but you are still moving forward to get quotes from other outfits. If he does show up give him a deadline.

**Tartan69** · 07-31-2012, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by pjrb

found PhillyBlog (now PhillySpeaks of course) to be as helpful

Agreed, this site is a great resource for this kind of stuff.

**LUCas** · 07-31-2012, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by robot

50% up front seems to be the standard deal when I have worked with contractors or painters in Philly. Have you been successful in negotiating less, or even no money up front?

I've only used a couple contractors. Both times it was 1/3 up front. Additional payments as the job progressed. And reserved 20% as final payment after completion.