Are Newly-Uncovered Century-Old Yellow Pine Floors Suitable for Kitchen?

[Tommy D]

Hi All,

Looking for more specific floor advice this time.

First, a brief history of the house:

Built in 1900 with yellow pine floors throughout, including (we now know) on a sunroom or patio at the back of the house.

In the 1950s, the sunroom became the kitchen, while the original kitchen became the dining room. When we bought the house, two weeks ago, we took up some of the linoleum (at least two layers) in the kitchen and found the yellow pine underneath to be fairly intact.

We would love to save the original floor in the kitchen, but we are worried that hundred-and-eleven-year-old yellow pine can't stand up to the rigors of being a kitchen floor. The consensus on the rest of the internet seems to be that hardwood in the kitchen is great, IF you pick the right hardwood. And pine is absolutely NOT on the "right" list.

We don't want to go through the hassle of sanding and refinishing it, only to end up ripping it out in two years when it starts warping like crazy.

Our hardwood guy (who is sanding and refinishing the rest of the house) is convinced we can save it if we use a good enough finish to seal it. He seems to know his stuff, and looks to be doing a great job with the rest of the house. From talking to his references, he also seems pretty good with installations, repairs, and overall seems to be a pretty good floor guy.

However, he is very biased towards saving the original floors where possible, and my wife and I are the same way. So I am worried that the three of us are not really discussing it as much as we are reinforcing each others' misplaced optimism.

Any opinions or experiences to share regarding uncovering old wood in a kitchen that was not a kitchen when the wood was put down?

[Eastcoast]

What do you have to lose? If your floor guy is already there with equipment to work on the rest of the floors and is confident that with a couple extra layers of sealant that the floors will work for a kitchen I would say give it a try.

Absolute worst case is you spend a few hundred refinishing a floor that will only last 3 years. If you want to fret over something be concerned about what kind of foundation (if any) is beneath the porch turned kitchen.

[Tommy D]

If you want to fret over something be concerned about what kind of foundation (if any) is beneath the porch turned kitchen.

"Porch" is probably the wrong word to use. It was probably more of a sunroom or patio. Structurally it is a single-story annex with a full concrete foundation, with crawlspace underneath. The rest of the house (three stories) has a full-height basement underneath. It does not look to have budged an inch since it was built, so it is not a concern.

Absolute worst case is you spend a few hundred refinishing a floor that will only last 3 years.

Right now we have no furniture in the place, and we are still living in our old house, so we are using the opportunity to create all the dust and mess necessary to get the floors into a state where we will not need to touch them for twenty years. We are pretty adamant about getting it rock-solid right the first time.

Next to the kitchen is a little alcove with the fridge, closet, laundry room, and powder room. This part seems to be an extension on the extension that does NOT have any hardwood under the linoleum. We are thinking of staining the yellow pine in the main kitchen a light black (if that's not an oxymoron) like shown in the picture below, and then putting down new wood in the alcove to match as closely as possible. We may put a threshold where they meet for a smooth transition.

[jazzcat]

I see no reason why you cannot use the old pine floor....however...

The floor will be subject to dents and dings ...especially from shoes..especially from high heels(which are like banging on the floor with a hammer...even on oak..much less pine).

I would make sure that you place some kind of throw rugs in high traffic areas...like by the sink..

If needed, there are pads for rugs over wood floors to prevent sliding...and use a floor cleaner made for wood floors.

Not MURPHYS!

I like this stuff...


I Want To - Clean My Hardwood Floor - Official Bona® US Site - MyBonaHome.com

[jazzcat]

Also...be prepared that you WILL dent the floor when you drop something...as happens often in a kitchen....the "memory" will be preserved.

[cjPhilly]

I'll chime in as someone who has hardwood in the kitchen. We refinished the original pine floors throughout the house, but had to replace the deteriorated flooring in the back part of the house where the kitchen is. There we opted to go with a new wide-plank oak floor. I love it all, but I will say that even the oak is starting to show the wear after 3 or 4 years. Our flooring guy said we should have it re-done every 3 or so years and I think he is probably right.

The pine floors in the rest of the house look good, but they too certainly show the wear. Just about anything will ding, dent, or scratch them. In all, I would say that if you stick with the pine, be prepared for it to take a beating in the kitchen so use throw rugs, don't let water splash or sit on it, and be sure to get it "touched up" every few years. The worst thing you can do is let the finish wear down and not get it re-finished. Also, be prepared to get all sorts of stuff crammed into the cracks between the floor boards.

[Eastcoast]

If you want to fret over something be concerned about what kind of foundation (if any) is beneath the porch turned kitchen.

"Porch" is probably the wrong word to use. It was probably more of a sunroom or patio. Structurally it is a single-story annex with a full concrete foundation, with crawlspace underneath. The rest of the house (three stories) has a full-height basement underneath. It does not look to have budged an inch since it was built, so it is not a concern.

Absolute worst case is you spend a few hundred refinishing a floor that will only last 3 years.

Right now we have no furniture in the place, and we are still living in our old house, so we are using the opportunity to create all the dust and mess necessary to get the floors into a state where we will not need to touch them for twenty years. We are pretty adamant about getting it rock-solid right the first time.

Next to the kitchen is a little alcove with the fridge, closet, laundry room, and powder room. This part seems to be an extension on the extension that does NOT have any hardwood under the linoleum. We are thinking of staining the yellow pine in the main kitchen a light black (if that's not an oxymoron) like shown in the picture below, and then putting down new wood in the alcove to match as closely as possible. We may put a threshold where they meet for a smooth transition.

Good news about the foundation, too often a back shed or porch becomes a kitchen, a bedroom is added overtop, another bedroom is added above...all without more than a hole filled with broken bricks and such as a foundation.

Ok, so it sounds like you are into it for more than just a quick refinish in the kitchen with adding the flooring to the other areas...have you considered pulling up the original boards and using them in the alcove, powder room area and then using stone or porcelain in the really high usage area of the kitchen?

[Tommy D]

The alcove contains the fridge and the washer which have been the respective problem sources for two friends I have talked to who have had kitchen hardwood warping. Slow leaks from the backs of those went undetected for months before they actually started seeing pools of water, and by then the wood underneath was already damaged. For that reason we will probably opt for new engineered hardwood in the alcove area.

The only possible source of invisible leaks in the main kitchen is the dishwasher, and we may replace the little patch of flooring under that with similar engineered wood, or even something more kitchen-intended. Seeing as the floor guys will have to pull out the appliances (I think they are all from 2004), I will also replace all the feed hoses.

[Tommy D]

I see no reason why you cannot use the old pine floor....however...

The floor will be subject to dents and dings ...especially from shoes..especially from high heels(which are like banging on the floor with a hammer...even on oak..much less pine).

I would make sure that you place some kind of throw rugs in high traffic areas...like by the sink..

If needed, there are pads for rugs over wood floors to prevent sliding...and use a floor cleaner made for wood floors.

Not MURPHYS!

I like this stuff...


I Want To - Clean My Hardwood Floor - Official Bona® US Site - MyBonaHome.com

Our old house still has the original floors from 1930 so we are well aware of the care that goes into them. We will definitely put a runner along the sinks / stove / countertop area.

[boognish]

Just an fyi, pine is a softwood, not a hardwood.

[stock]

I'd keep them. Put down 3 coats of poly instead of the normal 2, and in 3 to 4 years get a screening done (not sanding) and put down another coat.

We put down old long leaf yellow pine in Earth Bread and Brewery in Mt. Airy and it looks great, this is a restaurant that get's 1000's of people through a week. It got 6 coats though, but it's a restaurant.

[jazzcat]

Our old house still has the original floors from 1930 so we are well aware of the care that goes into them. We will definitely put a runner along the sinks / stove / countertop area.

Cool...I have seen NEW oak floors trashed in the first year.

[jazzcat]

I'd keep them. Put down 3 coats of poly instead of the normal 2, and in 3 to 4 years get a screening done (not sanding) and put down another coat.

We put down old long leaf yellow pine in Earth Bread and Brewery in Mt. Airy and it looks great, this is a restaurant that get's 1000's of people through a week. It got 6 coats though, but it's a restaurant.

2 coats is a standard now?

I put down sanding dealer...dilute the first coat, then put 3 more coats, screening between finish coats normally..

In a wet high traffic area..why not put a couple extra coats?

[Tommy D]

Today we finished pulling up the lino and apparently the pine only goes halfway into the kitchen. The rest is plywood. So retaining the original pine is out. Our floor guy will take it for repair jobs on similar-era floors so it will not go to waste.

Now we are debating what to put down on the floor. I really want to put down solid wood, but then laminate seems more practical, and some of the laminate in the showrooms looks exactly like solid wood.

What I am leaning towards now is putting down unfinished wide-plank oak, stain it light black (like the picture above), and put enough coats of finish on it to make it kitchen-safe.

[jazzcat]

Too bad.

I would suggest searching for a.prefinished floor...there is much to choose from.

[stock]

Wow, 4 coats for every job? Even a bedroom?

We do the sealer and two coats for standard rooms etc... Moister areas like kitchens or bathrooms get three. Of course if the wood is sucking it in we will add more until it gets a build up, but usually sealer + 2.

2 coats is a standard now?

I put down sanding dealer...dilute the first coat, then put 3 more coats, screening between finish coats normally..

In a wet high traffic area..why not put a couple extra coats?

[stock]

Too bad.

I would suggest searching for a.prefinished floor...there is much to choose from.

I shy away from pre-finished in moister areas, the t&g is not protected, so when you spill water in a kitchen, it get's in between easier. Lot's of these new floors have that micro bevel that just sucks up the water/dirt.

I would rather have unfinished, nail them tight and sand/stain/poly for a tighter top end. It'll help with keeping water from getting under and moister issues. Just my ideas though. Not sure if it's actually better or not, but logic tells me it is. That or go engineered, very stable product. I would not do laminate.

[Tommy D]

I shy away from pre-finished in moister areas, the t&g is not protected, so when you spill water in a kitchen, it get's in between easier. Lot's of these new floors have that micro bevel that just sucks up the water/dirt.

I would rather have unfinished, nail them tight and sand/stain/poly for a tighter top end. It'll help with keeping water from getting under and moister issues. Just my ideas though. Not sure if it's actually better or not, but logic tells me it is. That or go engineered, very stable product. I would not do laminate.

I have exactly the same discomfort about prefinished in a kitchen. There is probably a great finish on each of the individual components, but no sealant across them all. I suppose if we do prefinished there is nothing stopping us from adding a few coats of sealant once it is done, but at that point we might as well do unfinished and stain it to the exact color we want.

Is there such a thing as unfinished engineered wood? That would be perfect but it seems to not exist.

Why would you not do laminate? I don't want to do it, but not for any logical reasons. Some of the ones we have seen look fantastic, there is no way that I would have been able to tell they were not solid wood.

[ShoshTrvls]

I have a Pergo flooring in my kitchen and after about 10 years (ok, I admit, that's a pretty good run), it is pulling up at the seams everywhere. Replacing it is high on my to do list, but I don't think I'll go with Pergo again.

I'm happy to hear any suggestions you guys have.

[CV's mum]

Is there such a thing as unfinished engineered wood? That would be perfect but it seems to not exist.
.

yes, there is. I spec'd it for an apt renovation and it turned out awesome. I'll try to find the brand.